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Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#341

Post by AsyncAwait »

user5994461 wrote: post #332
digi_owl wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic issue with all this is hardware manufacturers, and their fire and forget attitudes towards products. Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). And your primary complain…

> Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms.

> Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms.

Being a hipster has very little to do with using Linux these days. Wanting a productive, customisable work environment has a lot, on the other hand.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#342

Post by AsyncAwait »

vinceguidry wrote: post #286
stewbrew wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running linux on my laptops for decades and experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Everything works flawlessly. If you plan to run linux on your laptop, you will have to research first how well the computer is supported. You can't install MacOS (or even Windows) on just any computer neither.

I'll raise you one and say that even if you installed Linux on a laptop built for Linux, it would still be inferior to a MacBook. I bought a System76 GalagoPro a few years back, today it is a media center. It's the most use it's gotten since I bought it.

Depends...I had more problems with my work MBP to be honest than with my Arch clevo laptop I use at home.

On the MBP, I experience semi-frequent freezes, kernel panics, overheating, unstable WiFi, inaccurate battery status reporting, scaling issues, occasional green tint, FS lock up etc. - it's still nice, but I wouldn't say it's more smooth than modern Linux with GNOME 3, in fact I've had much less problems with that setup than with my MBP.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#343

Post by runn1ng »

orbifold wrote: post #302
runn1ng wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will ac…

I've found apt-get compared to homebrew close to useless, it has rapidly outdated packages that have been modified and "fixed" in various ways by maintainers. It also does not properly separate two completely different concerns: 1. Provide a updates for a base installation, the details of which you essentially don't want care about (working drivers, recent kernel version, recent version of wayland/x11 etc.) 2. Provid…

YMMV. For me, I got angry that there were many parallel ways of updating and getting software on Mac.

Some elevated Apple apps are updated via System Update. Some are updated via Mac App Store. Some are updating themselves when they feel like it. Some are updated via brew, or via macports.

But I am not gonna argue much or anything, I grew out of my teens and I no longer want to tell other people that my OS is the best :) it's not, I definitely wouldn't give Linux to my mom (at this state).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#344

Post by AsyncAwait »

orbifold wrote: post #302
runn1ng wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will ac…

I've found apt-get compared to homebrew close to useless, it has rapidly outdated packages that have been modified and "fixed" in various ways by maintainers. It also does not properly separate two completely different concerns: 1. Provide a updates for a base installation, the details of which you essentially don't want care about (working drivers, recent kernel version, recent version of wayland/x11 etc.) 2. Provid…

It does provide this via PPAs

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#345

Post by runn1ng »

bramblerose wrote: post #276
runn1ng wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will ac…

Consider using a VM, and using either Windows or OS X as graphical user interface. You can then easily SSH into the VM, and do most of the development there. If you run a samba (or nfs) server on the VM, you can even easily use e.g. VS Code. Add an X server and you can run (albeit not very fast) run graphical programs (e.g. and IDE) as well.

And what would be the upside to that?

Sure, HW would work better, but I don't want to update two OSes instead of one.

And the only thing I am really missing on Linux is Adobe Creation Suite. GIMP and Inkscape are not nearly adequate (although they are for a better price). And there is literally nothing like Flash, for a simple animation.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#346

Post by lobster_johnson »

sandGorgon wrote: post #137
dogma1138 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reduced battery time (?), more stuff to fail and being dependent on software for hotswap functionality which may have some serious issues with non-Windows and even none NT10 based Windows operating system and the list can go on. We're not talking about a fingerprint reader here. Convertible laptops have to make very specific design choices/compromises which come with some disadvantages currently.

this is FUD. reduced battery has nothing to do with a convertible form factor. You are talking about the display resolution perhaps - QHD displays are obviously more power hungry than FHD. But then again, most people want "Retina". Software has largely matured for hotswap. Fedora 25 with kernel 4.9 is brilliant on a convertible. Windows has had it for decades. We already use the cheaper yoga and Dell inspiron convert…

> this is FUD.

I wish people who stop using "FUD" as a synonym for "incorrect" or "wrong".

FUD ("fear, uncertainty and doubt") is a disinformation strategy to undermine the opposition and "influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear" [1].

FUD was famously a tool used by Microsoft against its competitors.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#347

Post by optimali »

sytelus wrote: post #308

I'm using Lenovo P50 for Linux development with duel boot to Windows. The trick to get duel boot right is to have two SSDs and install each OS on its own SSD. P50 supports two SSDs + 1 spinning drive. Besides this, its very likely only laptop with 64GB option and 4K display with descret NVidia GPU with 4GB memory so you can even do local deep learning!

I moved from dual booting mine to running Windows in a VM. I find it to be much more convenient and so far windows runs almost seamlessly (after upgrading to 32GB memory).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#348

Post by pombrand »

keldaris wrote: post #230
sarcher wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also still have a T400 chugging along with Arch. It got put in storage for a few years until I dug it out while recycling some other junk and realized it still had considerable life in it. I just set someone up with a T420 with a few upgrades and it's a fantastic value. Hardest part was finding a source for the rubber HD rails needed to swap a 7mm tall SSD in place of the original 9.5mm platter drive. It was techni…

> If anyone has advice on swapping the screen on a T420 please point me towards it - the T420 screen is, for me, the only negative. There's a lot of people swapping them (one example [1]), but I don't know if there's a consensus on which are the best options, and there's quite a few. I think the T420 and the X220 are by far the best options for reasonably modern but not yet ruined Thinkpads, but for both of them the…

You can replace the T420 screen with a $45 Alienware 1600x900 screen that is allegedly plug-n-play and amazing https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/4no5ak/t420_alien...

Considering doing it to my T420S :)

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#349

Post by Capt-RogerOver »

Insanity wrote: post #144
walterbell wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, even a recent (Aug 2016) new Thinkpad T460p included a Lenovo Windows app that apparently runs daily to send "usage data" to Lenovo. It is easily disabled, but still troubling because most customers will be unaware that it exists. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984889/windows-pcs/len... https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht102023 > As of September 2015: Lenovo systems may include softwar…

To be fair, if it comes with a preinstalled version of windows you can never really be sure what is on the machine, can you? I suspect that if a company really wanted to hide something they probably could. So unless you install windows or another OS on it yourself, you don't know what the manufacturer put on it. I guess it would not be too hard to find in general if it shows up in the list of processes, but they coul…

Lenovo have been repeatedly caught doing this. They have shown that they do not want or plan to have this as an opt-in - instead they are trying to hide it better. It's obvious that it's their strategy, not some one time "mistake". (They put it in BIOS even! (!)). http://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-virus.html

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#350

Post by Capt-RogerOver »

phunehehe0 wrote: post #68
endgame wrote: post #37

Lenovo are on my personal shitlist after superfish and abusing the windows platform binary table. When my current laptop dies (a thinkpad T440p that I'm reasonably happy with), I may have to suck up the performance hit and go to minifree for a machine I can actually trust.

Sounds like a non-problem if you are going to wipe out Windows and install Linux anyway?

Not if they have shown that they can go so far as to put in BIOS. Imagine the level of effort it requires to develop something like this? If that is true, why not develop a small dedicated chip for it and put it somewhere unaccessible on the motherboard? (I mean, it's likely that they did or will do this.) http://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-virus.html
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