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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#341

Post by jameshart »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #38
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

I don't know anyone who is pro-gun that is going to give up his gun as long as there is a terrorism threat to his family and country. Politicians need to squelch the terrorism war chanting if they ever want any form of gun control to pass in the U.S.

But that has to be cultural reaction as well. The UK was subject through the 80s/90s to a persistent, genuine, armed terrorist threat in the form of Irish republican and unionist terrorism. If the reaction of the population of Northern Ireland and England to that had been to demand that they be allowed to arm themselves, I don't think we'd have ever reached an end to the Troubles.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#342

Post by gwright »

rogersmith wrote: post #234
talmand wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you'll get out of B is responses about terrorism and it doesn't count.

Right, because if some crazy asshole shoots people randomly it's a mass shooting but if he happens to be muslim it's terrorism. Sorry, keep forgetting about that memo.

Actually I think the current practice is to label pretty much everything terrorism. Part of the perpetual crisis strategy used to justify the militarization of police forces.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#343

Post by firethief »

radiorental wrote: post #171
imgabe wrote: post #145

To play devil's advocate, which gun law would have prevented this person from getting shot by her toddler? As a gun rights advocate, she presumably has been around guns for a long time and should have been well versed in how to handle them safely. I doubt there's any training that could be mandated that would exceed the experience she already had. Short of banning guns entirely, which would require a constitutional a…

Terrorists have been known to carry guns, babies accidentally fire guns. Let's contrast the two sets. This falls into the clickbait narrative that so easily triggers opinions either side of the gun law debate. If there's any value to be taken from this comparison it's how "terrorism" is used to direct funding towards agencies like the TSA (and many others) who don't perform any meaningful function. Or distract us fro…

The TSA performs a very meaningful function. If you want to fly in the US, you have to submit to their probing. This is an important part of maintaining the terror, which serves many useful political functions. We'd put up with a lot less incursion on our liberties if they stopped feeding the terror.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#344

Post by aninhumer »

rogersmith wrote: post #321
aninhumer wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the relevant difference is whether the shooters had external support to commit their crime. That it's possible for a determined group to acquire guns and attack people is one thing. It being possible for a single mentally unstable person to do so is quite another.

Feel free to share your sources establishing the shooters of both the Paris Hebdo and Bataclan attacks received external support. What about Columbine (multiple shooters, conspired in advance to commit the attack), terrorism, mass shootings?

I'm not saying anything about any particular shooting, I'm saying that's the relevant difference.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#345

Post by ende »

piyush_soni wrote: post #338
TallGuyShort wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's irresponsible to not take reasonable precautions with guns. I keep mine in a GunVault. But mandating that by law and assigning liability to the owner is a slippery slope. I agree it makes sense with guns, but if someone breaks into my house looking for prescription medicines and I failed to adequately label poison, am I liable? If they ban guns and an armed robber breaks into my house, are the politician…

To this and all such similar analogies, sure, anything can be used to kill, but let's talk about only the things whose primary purpose is to kill. Like Guns. Bombs. Canons. etc. Now one might argue that the "primary purpose" for them is their safety and not killing, but no, it's not. That is assuming safety by creating a 'threat of getting killed' to the opponent. I know this punishment is little harsh (and should be…

Canons? Now I've gotta look up the CDC numbers on canon deaths for last year. I wonder how many died from grape shot vs cannister rounds?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#346

Post by firethief »

cm2187 wrote: post #50
mtgx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless we transform our democracy into a totalitarian state The irony is that in totalitarian states terrorism increases, not decreases. Because then even more people have a reason to hate their own totalitarian leaders.

I am not sure that's true. Crime under totalitarian regimes is usually very low, because the level of control and delation makes it almost impossible to get away with it.

It makes sense that the general crime rate would be much lower, but people planning terrorism aren't trying to get away with it; this reduces the government's capacity to control them relative to people violating other laws.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#347

Post by giardini »

knz wrote: post #225
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely has horrific murders involving decapitated bodies. Personally I can understand why SOME Americans feel the need to carry a firearm. It's highly unlikely that you would be harmed by the animals mentioned above or even be affected by the violence in Mexico, but it…

Hurricane Katrina's Danziger Bridge shootings remind us of the most unpredictable and dangerous of predators, humans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings

BTW doesn't the UK have zoos, animal sanctuaries or wealthy residents who own predators?

In the USA thousands of lions, tigers, cheetahs, cape buffalo and other non-native predator species reside in zoos, animal sanctuaries or even back yards. Subplots of apocalyptic movies/stories sometimes depict the ensuing confusion/mayhem should these predators get loose.

Hunting African game species is significantly more difficult than hunting North American game species. Indeed the African species may be hunting you! Larger-caliber firearms are recommended, larger than most firearms commonly used in North American. The .223 (e.g., AR-15) is a varmint cartridge designed for coyotes and stretched to hunt deer and men, the 30-06 (.30 caliber) a military round intended to kill humans. Hunters of African predators typically use larger calibers, .375" and up.

A true SHTF scenario in either the UK and USA would result in some interesting inter-species encounters, to say the least. But they would still pale in comparison to the intraspecies encounters.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#348

Post by AI_Overlord »

magicGLASSman wrote: post #309
AI_Overlord wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it -tweets a statistic that most white people are killed by black people, never apologizes, refuses to backtrack -pretends he has no idea who white extremist groups or the kkk are when asked point blank whether he will disavow their support ... The list goes on and on

>Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it (slanted framing) Because they are illegals the stats are difficult to prove or disprove. -An estimated 25,000 of these undocumented immigrants serving sentences for homicide -A cumulative total of 2.89 million offenses committed by these undocumented immigrants between 2003 and 2009 (although half a million of these were for immigration-related offenses) -Among those of…

Nationwide, illegals are Five time Less likely to be in prison than native born US citizens. Also, immigration violations, not violent acts account for most immigrants in federal prison.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-eviden...

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#349

Post by piyush_soni »

ende wrote: post #345
piyush_soni wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To this and all such similar analogies, sure, anything can be used to kill, but let's talk about only the things whose primary purpose is to kill. Like Guns. Bombs. Canons. etc. Now one might argue that the "primary purpose" for them is their safety and not killing, but no, it's not. That is assuming safety by creating a 'threat of getting killed' to the opponent. I know this punishment is little harsh (and should be…

Canons? Now I've gotta look up the CDC numbers on canon deaths for last year. I wonder how many died from grape shot vs cannister rounds?

Figure of speech.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#350

Post by pjc50 »

giardini wrote: post #347
knz wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely has horrific murders involving decapitated bodies. Personally I can understand why SOME Americans feel the need to carry a firearm. It's highly unlikely that you would be harmed by the animals mentioned above or even be affected by the violence in Mexico, but it…

Hurricane Katrina's Danziger Bridge shootings remind us of the most unpredictable and dangerous of predators, humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings BTW doesn't the UK have zoos, animal sanctuaries or wealthy residents who own predators? In the USA thousands of lions, tigers, cheetahs, cape buffalo and other non-native predator species reside in zoos, animal sanctuaries or even back yards. Su…

I think you win today's "I need guns for a ridiculously unlikely scenario" prize.

There are zoos and suchlike, and there have even occasionally been escapes, which are usually recaptured with a tranquiliser dart gun.

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