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President Obama calls on every American to learn code

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Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#331

I for one welcome anything that exposes people to programming. I don't think it will necessarily transform the US economy or anything, but I think it will be genuinely good for people to have the exposure. K-12 and college students are taught all kind of things that may not click with them or be relevant in their daily life when they get out of school (plenty of people never use math or writing skills in their actual…

Sounds like an easy way for University to use an incentive to encourage more people into a degree path that might yield dividends for them, and move people away from majors that don't lead into employment.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, how many working people have ever had to face the problem of getting a list of filenames into an email? A lot of my coworkers. They take a screenshot, thus offloading the hard part onto everyone who needs to get data out of their email. It's about as awesome as it sounds.

What industry do you and your co-workers work in? As far as the hard part goes, I'd think an OCR script could handle this even if they're using Comic Sans for their file manager font.

Medical software. :(

And yeah, that's an option that I've considered it in the past, but never been able to validate it because it'd take me less time to just transcribe it (or I can find a glob pattern from their screenshot, etc.).

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#334
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony about your very valid benefits of having basic programming knowledge is that music programs, which have been proven to provide benefits in math and language and just general smartyhood, are the first to get their budgets cut in any given budget battle. That said, how many working people have ever had to face the problem of getting a list of filenames into an email? http://www.pbs.org/parents/education/music…

> That said, how many working people have ever had to face the problem of getting a list of filenames into an email? Few, because when tasked with a problem that this could solve, most people would immediately throw up their hands and give up. This is the biggest obstacle of all. "Which pictures are you missing?" "I don't know, I'm not going to flip through them all!"

On Mac: select files, copy, switch to text area, paste. Actually, I'd be surprised if this didn't work on Windows, too...

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#336
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people live in bubble with no connection to the real world; insulated by religious dogma and partisan ignorance. Debating need not concern with actual provable, reliable facts, but soundbites and appeals to authority. But you can't fool the computer. You can beg and plead, you can say your teacher tells you that it should work, but ultimately you can't make it work unless you actually do. You can fake your ch…

This is an equally strong argument for teaching plumbing or woodworking.

Neither teaches abstract thought.

However, I do believe at least the basics of both you mentioned should be taught as well. If you can't fix a damaged wooden door frame or change the o-rings in a faucet by 18, you haven't been prepared for life.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#337

Speaking as a non-coder, but as one who did minimal things with programming-like higher-level stuff ranging from the old DOS batch files to VBA and some dabbling with SQL, I am curious whether real engineers believe the idea of broad literacy in coding truly would be valuable and, if so, how exactly. I am not speaking as a skeptic, just as one who does not readily see the point and wants to know. Of course, we are in…

Besides what others have mentioned with respect to helping people discover an otherwise undiscovered talent for engineering, coding, if only at a more basic level, has a tremendous impact on average office workers' productivity.

Consider a company I am intimately familiar with, which is a typical manufacturing company. There are accountants, customer service, salespeople, production schedulers, marketers, inventory managers, production foreman, maintenance technicians, material buyers, human resource staffers, and so on. A typical set of functions that could have been picked from any number of hundreds of small or medium sized manufacturing companies. Due to the company's size there are no dedicated programmers as might be found in a larger company's IS or IT department.

But in nearly all work areas, a person's productivity is greatly leveraged to their familiarity and comfort with technology, including the ability to develop a set of instructions to assist in automating tasks within the computer. And because their productivity is leveraged to technology, those who are more capable with that automation are typically also paid more.

It is surprising how many opportunities there are for at least basic levels of programming in many different areas. Consider the following examples:

- A material buyer needs to know anticipated raw material needs by product, based on order backlogs. She develops a little VB script to tell her how much to order of each type of raw material, based on types of products in the order backlog. She then enhances it to consider price discounts, shipping quantity breaks, supplier lead times, and additional factors, to maximize material inventory turns while minimizing the material outages.

- An accountant develops a basic script to assist in forecasting cash flow to the business, to help manage the company's operating line of credit, lowering the business's interest costs and identifying potential cash flow issues well ahead of time.

- A maintenance tech develops a database to track issues with machines, replacing paper tracking. After six months, he uses database queries to begin identifying patterns among the hundreds of maintenance issues, to help create a set of preventative maintenance procedures to minimize expensive downtime.

Are any of these using Ruby on Rails? Are they using algorithms that one would learn in a Computer Science curriculum? Likely not. Many of these tasks are on the wrong side of what the audience here would even consider "coding": it is just creating a simple database, or using some simple VBS, or maybe even nothing more than some more complex than usual formulas in Excel. And yet they are skills that are woefully absent from the vast majority of the population, and yet which would greatly enhance their productivity and earnings.

Would the majority of workers benefit from formal training of computer science theory? That is debatable. If done the way many CS 101 classes are done, it could even hurt, by creating fear of the topic at an early age.

But there is a basic level of competence that would enhance the productivity of a great many number of workers, that is absent today. That basic level of competence would include the introduction of how a database works, basic office automation scripts, perhaps mixed in with some fundamentals of simple data analysis with computers.

A typical office or production candidate demonstrating even these simple skills is highly attractive in an interview, and I believe that any country's industry would be far more competitive with a population with these skills than without.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#338
In my view, the impact of the President's message will not be on those of us who are already teaching our kids programming, but on the kids who live on the other side of the digital divide, and have nobody around them -- parents and even teachers -- who are fully aware of what programming consists of. Many parents think that programming is dangerous.

I agree with the folks who have suggested that something like a semester of C randomly inserted into the existing curriculum will be a waste. Instead, the "every American should learn code" message should stimulate debate about what "code" would actually consist of if applied intelligently to the K-12 curriculum.

How about music class? So much of contemporary music is programmed. Create music in Scratch.

Replace some obsolete math exercises with explorations using spreadsheets or computer algebra software.

Let kids use Scratch to write their own data acquisition programs for science labs, via S4A.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#339
post #97
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper grammar, for practical purposes, should be defined as "is capable of talking in a way that will not put them at a disadvantage in job interviews" . Use of the the word "ain't" probably isn't worth worrying about; stunted vocabulary and inability to match tenses probably is.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. I'm not pedantic enough about the "you and me" stuff, or even fully correct in my own punctuation and I'm a native English speaker. But knowing the difference between "there, their and they're" is very important for example.

That's mostly an issue with English spelling---which is an attrocious system.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#340
post #21

A lot of people are getting attached to the "every American" aspect of things, and I think its important to note the distance between "knowing how to code" and "becoming a programmer." Amateur programming (for lack of a better term) like basic Python for data analysis or HTML/CSS to work on Wordpress sites (Hell, one of my friends who's a Social Media Manager learned Python to create some QoL scripts for her day-to-d…

We teach writing as a required subject in schools, without the expectation that everyone is going to be a professional writer. We teach science without the expectation that everyone is going to be a scientist. We teach physical education without the expectation that everyone is going to be a professional athlete. These are all good life skills to have even if you don't learn enough to make it your career. So it shoul…

Interestingly, you could group your words in two ways:

good (life skills)

(good life) skills

Both apply equally!

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