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Being poor vs. being broke

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#331

Post by xp84 »

d_silin wrote: post #247
carlosjobim wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nobody's fault for becoming poor. But if you're staying poor (dirt poor) for decades, then there is something you're doing wrong. The other commenter puts it in a rude way, but there's something to it. If you evidently can't take care of yourself, then you shouldn't be given more money. You should be in some kind of institution which takes care of your basic needs.

You are one major sickness and one layoff away from getting into the same situation, often to the point of no return.

No, I doubt they are. Most people who are on the streets chronically are there because they’ve burned every bridge. Most people have a dozen friends or family who would gladly give them the guest room for a few weeks if they had a job loss that put them at risk of hard times — on the other hand those who mysteriously have zero friends or family usually got that way by the same antisocial behaviors that contributed to their problems in the first place, until every last person that once cared said “don’t come around here anymore.”

Not saying anyone’s a Bad Person for this, but treating everyone like zero-agency victims or helpless children has never fixed anything. You can’t fix people without at least their partnership, and generally it’s substances and severe mental illness that gets in the way of the cooperation. “Bitter pills to swallow” as the meme goes but anyone who doesn’t admit this is kidding themself.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#332

Post by pkkim »

renewiltord wrote: post #230
Den_VR wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine why anyone would be deliberately misled to believe Cottonwood Day School on the Navajo reservation is not very nice. Oh wait

Not American born so there is some obvious thing here that’s not so obvious to me. What’s the ref? Is it a race thing

Not sure exactly how obvious it is to most Americans, but the Navajo reservation is extremely poor by American standards. When I went there, the local roads were all dirt and the houses seemed to have no electricity.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#333

Post by JohnMakin »

tracker1 wrote: post #162
JohnMakin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of low skill jobs have constantly shifting schedules given at the last possible minute (day by day sometimes) that don’t necessarily allow the time luxury of juggling multiple jobs. Fast food is a great example.

Not sure about that even.. in my late teens I worked fast food and as a clerical temp worker (I could type fast) for data entry/processing. The fast food job didn't have an issue scheduling me just in the evenings/weekends. A lot of employers are pretty understanding if you have multiple jobs and will work around your needs as much as possible.

I mean, you can not be sure all you want, but I promise you it’s this way - know from personal experience.

it’s even been written about: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/economy/retail-fast-food-work...

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#334

Post by potato3732842 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #252
dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

I spent years getting over the idea of saving some half broken thing because “I might need a part from that later”

And the more skilled and richer and better tooled up you get over time the more potentially useful everything is so the more you feel like you have to save it.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#335

Post by seba_dos1 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #248
ModernMech wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's nobody's fault Sure, but it's the system's fault, and we can point at the people who are keeping the system the way it is. The system is what it does, and what it does is syphon money from everyone else and pumps it upward to a few individuals. That's not an accident, people are responsible for that, they like the way it works, and they're intent on keeping it that way. Remember, in this system you get paid mo…

Have you seen "the system" sleeping on the streets, starving, or not having enough clothes? No matter who or what is to blame, the individual is who is paying the price and who should have the strongest interest to get out of that situation. Which means, if you're staying in that situation for years on end you have to admit to yourself you are doing something which isn't working. Thats why people have more sympathy f…

Yes, because human mind is famously known for being extraordinarily good at getting out of self-destructive spiraling without external help, and that help is famously known for being provided to everyone who needs it regardless of their economic status. Also, chronic lack of money has absolutely no way to contribute to that occurring in the first place. /s

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#336

Post by potato3732842 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #234
wagwang wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents grew up poor in manner that is more extreme than anything OP described in the post and they always remind me that its just hard work and grit.

That, and an environmnet that allows folks "from the wrong side of the tracks," to get ahead. For all its faults, the US is just such a place. I suspect that many other nations are starting to improve. At one time, the UK was a nation that you couldn't get ahead, unless you were of a certain class. I think that it is much more like the US, nowadays. You can hear lots of cockney accents in Harrods.

>For all its faults, the US is just such a place.

Trying hard not to be and using some flimsy pretext to justify it probably accounts for 3/4 of state laws that don't pertain to a) a procedural matter b) a matter with an identifiable victim, or at least that's how it looks by my unscientific observation.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#337

Post by potato3732842 »

more_corn wrote: post #312
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and an environmnet that allows folks "from the wrong side of the tracks," to get ahead. For all its faults, the US is just such a place. I suspect that many other nations are starting to improve. At one time, the UK was a nation that you couldn't get ahead, unless you were of a certain class. I think that it is much more like the US, nowadays. You can hear lots of cockney accents in Harrods.

“Used to be” such a place. Stagnating minimum wage while inflation proceeds unchecked, the rise of marginal employment and contract work. Skyrocketing housing costs. I don’t think the us is such a place anymore. It fast becoming a place that is not.

Minimum almost doesn't matter in a discussion of mobility. Nobody ever escaped poverty working minimum wage. They found a way to move up.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#339

Post by rustystump »

fullshark wrote: post #38

It's interesting how many comments here are knee jerk annoyance at this blogpost, which in my mind does a good job outlining two different financial situations and how flippant suggested solutions for escaping poverty don't make sense. The fact that many of us here have so much compared to others in our community however you define it is disturbing and not helpful information for our day to day lives so we do what we…

I am normally a knee jerker but i grew up in a big family with very little. Between broke and poor. Almost going to food banks but not quite. This is pretty spot on to what it is like.

Even broke, something as simple as a parking ticket is borderline life threatening. Id buy the McDonald’s 1$ drink with free refills and calorie load on that all day reusing the cup. He doesnt touch on the shame of it you feel esp in todays us culture.

I am lucky to get out of the cycle.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#340

Post by carlosjobim »

decimalenough wrote: post #319
carlosjobim wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution is boring, but it works for the individual who is in that situation: Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary. Not only do you physically get yourself out of the environment which has dragged you down, you can also cut out expenses such as rent and even transportation. Which is huge. Yes, it's not a fun solution. It won't make you rich. But it will take you out of being dir…

The vast majority of mariners these days are third world nationals getting paid third world wages. Becoming a full-time monk is a slow and demanding process that takes years, you can't just rock up at a monastery and become one.

> The vast majority of mariners these days are third world nationals getting paid third world wages.

So? Is the third world not included in the original article? And also, that's like saying that you can't become a farmer or a teacher, because the vast majority of farmers or teachers in the world are third world nationals getting third world wages. The merchant navy also has many ships which only hire nationally.

As per the article, we are talking about being dirt poor. In that case, in the merchant navy you get food, board, medical attention and on top of that a salary. Which may be good or very small. If you have better options, please feel free to ignore my advice. It is for those who don't have any better option, but it is always impossible among hackers to get this through. Maybe we should discuss a few hundred miles of text more about how to change the system, rather than talk about real and actionable advice?

> Becoming a full-time monk is a slow and demanding process that takes years, you can't just rock up at a monastery and become one.

Have you tried?

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