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FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

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Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#331

Post by weard_beard »

easterncalculus wrote: post #326
slg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the long list of problems caused by the government "disappearing" people (which they have objectively been doing lately) is that it destroys trust and therefore makes even valid legal proceedings seem more shady than they would in a world in which due process was a universal guarantee in practice. I don't fault anyone for jumping to conclusions implicating the government is in the wrong here rather than Wang.

> the government "disappearing" people (which they have objectively been doing lately) If you know where someone is being held (like Louisiana, for example) they weren't 'disappeared'.

If they were abducted by plainclothes agents and moved across state lines (countermanding a judges lawful order) to a facility where their legal representation has no access they were, without a doubt, disappeared.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#332

Post by lolinder »

stevage wrote: post #301
lolinder wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That probably isn't correct given that IU has scrubbed him from their web pages. That alone makes this look like disappearing him and his wife. Why? As a possible explanation: Wang disappears suddenly and without warning. The university investigates and in the course of the investigation discovers that he was working as a spy for the PRC for the past 20 years while employed with them. They freak out, knowing that t…

He had students. The idea that the university thought they could suddenly pretend he never existed, and this would not become news, is not plausible.

You're assuming that the hypothetical university personnel responsible for the cleanup of the mess thought the whole thing through clearly and weren't in hardcore firefighting mode and reacting in ways that would seem to make sense at the time but didn't take all the facts into account. I see no reason to assume that level of intentionality.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#334

Post by more_corn »

billy99k wrote: post #246
slg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even the most egregious cases, which are very bad, have left a paper trail for lawyers and journalists to follow. How can you be confident in this? Is it possible that you are saying this because the only cases we know about are when they have happened to leave "a paper trail for lawyers and journalists to follow"?

With all the speculation, how do we know the US government 'disappeared' him. He's originally from China. How do we know that the Chinese government didn't do this (which is known to happen) and now the FBI is involved to find out what happened?

Isn’t it more likely that he was out when they raided his house, heard of the raid (perhaps from the woman on the phone when she emerged from the house on the phone) and fled to avoid arrest?

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#335

Post by ctrlp »

mmooss wrote: post #262
ctrlp wrote: post #182

If it turns out that he was somehow repatriated to his home country under compulsion that would not be terribly surprising. Nor would it be surprising if he was a "spy" or even a double agent. The FBI raiding his home suggests that he was somehow implicated either as a foreign agent or as a compromised intelligence asset, and one side or the other wanted him back.

> Nor would it be surprising if he was a "spy" or even a double agent. It would be very surprising. How many spies and 'double agents' are there?

Many, many, many.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#336

Post by rdtsc »

Animats wrote: post #74

This hasn't hit mainstream media yet. It should have by now. Disappearing people is not something the US government is allowed to do. Here's Xiaofeng Wang's bio on the Indiana University site.[1] Google Scholar.[2] Archived version of home page at Indiana University.[3] If anybody has a PACER account, please check there. [1] https://alliance.iu.edu/members/member/8580.html [2] https://scholar.google.com/citations?use…

> Disappearing people is not something the US government is allowed to do.

How do you mean? Is it that legally it's not allowed to, so it's obviously not what happened here -- it must be someone else or some other government or entity that "disappeared" him. Or, legally it's not allowed to, but they clearly did it and we should be alarmed?

In the past US government quite happily droned civilians, experimented on its own citizens, planned coup and coup in all kind of countries, engaged in torture and extra judicial detainment of people in Guantanamo for years.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#337

Post by easterncalculus »

weard_beard wrote: post #331
easterncalculus wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government "disappearing" people (which they have objectively been doing lately) If you know where someone is being held (like Louisiana, for example) they weren't 'disappeared'.

If they were abducted by plainclothes agents and moved across state lines (countermanding a judges lawful order) to a facility where their legal representation has no access they were, without a doubt, disappeared.

Okay, so ignoring a lawful order is unlawful. It's still not 'disappearing' someone if you know where they are. There are also some people you could argue are being disappeared because their whereabouts aren't published. That's assuming media outlets simply just aren't reporting on their whereabouts to then create that narrative. Surely US media has never done that in recent history. It's all case-by-case and it's clear that ICE is probably breaking the law at a large scale. Still:

> without a doubt

With HEAVY doubt, lol. At some point redefining buzzwords to engage in political hyperbole goes further than being intellectually dishonest and presses against the rules of this site.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#339

Post by lokar »

mikeyouse wrote: post #284
mmooss wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Department of Homeland Security is not an undocumented immigrant, nor is the court system. They are required to document what they do.

And many of the disappeared people were here either with valid asylum claims or temporary protected status and were following the laws to get their day in court -- at which time it would have been completely legal and appropriate to deport them if their claims were denied. Instead, we have secret police grabbing them off the street, immediately transferring them out of the jurisdiction they were picked up in and flyi…

Some people had 100% valid visas that were revoked upon attempting to enter, at the (arbitrary) discretion of an immigration officer for years old non-criminal issues that had been resolved.

They were then detained for days rather then be allowed to exit the country.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#340

Post by dragonwriter »

user3939382 wrote: post #311
dragonwriter wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, and the higher level Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review (FISA is the law limiting government surveillance certain of whose provisions they enforce) don't deal with “charges” at all, and the statute they do enforce the warrant requirements for (FISA) isn’t secret.

Their interpretation of the statutes is secret thus we have secret law enforced by this court. The charges related to these warrants are secret if not adjudicated by the court. To be more direct, the existence of this court is an abomination in the context of a democracy.

> Their interpretation of the statutes is secret

Their application of the statutes to facts that remain classified are generally classified, sure.

> The charges related to these warrants are secret if not adjudicated by the court.

There are no charges directly related to the warrants because they are not criminal warrants. If there are criminal charges indirectly related to them, they are not secret, and are pursued in normal US courts, by normal process.

> To be more direct, the existence of this court is an abomination in the context of a democracy.

There may be ways to improve the processes of these courts, but given the functions they deal with and the facts that in other democracies (as in the US prior to FISA) there is often no court oversight of foreign intelligence surveillance, I think their existence is actually a positive thing.

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