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FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

arstechnica.com

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Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#301

Post by stevage »

lolinder wrote: post #172
bediger4000 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sequence is better explained by the hypothesis that Wang vanished himself That probably isn't correct given that IU has scrubbed him from their web pages. That alone makes this look like disappearing him and his wife. The feds unconstitutionally "disappearing" this couple doesn't exactly fit either, but based on the article, that's what fits best.

> That probably isn't correct given that IU has scrubbed him from their web pages. That alone makes this look like disappearing him and his wife. Why? As a possible explanation: Wang disappears suddenly and without warning. The university investigates and in the course of the investigation discovers that he was working as a spy for the PRC for the past 20 years while employed with them. They freak out, knowing that t…

He had students. The idea that the university thought they could suddenly pretend he never existed, and this would not become news, is not plausible.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#304

Post by trod1234 »

runarberg wrote: post #204
trod1234 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an FYI, you do know that Hanlon's Razor isn't a law, or even a rule of thumb. It was a joke in a joke book, and has been taken entirely out of context by most people who use it to justify anything.

haha, I did not know that. The first time I saw it, it was actually used against my point here on HN.

I didn't either at first, I went and looked it up after enough people started using it to nullify/discredit what I had to say in serious conversation.

Murphy's Law Book 2, January 24, 1980 A book of jokes, meant to be humorous.

No previous literature related to it before then.

I can't help but laugh when people use it now, so I guess its still funny... in a way.

It says a lot about the character of a person that takes a joke and uses it in a way, that it was never intended to be used. Useful knowledge to keep in your back pocket if needed.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#305

Post by Ar-Curunir »

neuroelectron wrote: post #291
mimsee wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if AI research is dual-use tech, would an AI research er be dual-use human, and get travel restricted because of weapons export controls. Dude is a weapon!

His public papers are mostly white hat focused so it would stand to reason that he has lots of black hat research that is not published.

That's not how it works in academic computer security research. If a researcher has good attack papers, there are plenty of top venues that would accept them.

Please don't speculate from a position of ignorance.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#307

Post by Ar-Curunir »

Andrex wrote: post #207
lucubratory wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand the PRC tries pretty hard to provide a lot of incentives to academic returnees. I do wonder if they have a tenure match program, where if you have tenure at an American university of a given calibre you are automatically granted tenure at a Chinese university of a similar calibre if you return to China. They probably should.

If that's true, then that seems to be the simplest explanation for what happened here? (Honestly asking.)

It is extremely bad form to leave your students stranded and move to another university with no communication. It also wouldn't warrant FBI action; plenty of people have moved back to their home countries from academic positions in the US.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#308

Post by declan_roberts »

ctrlp wrote: post #182

If it turns out that he was somehow repatriated to his home country under compulsion that would not be terribly surprising. Nor would it be surprising if he was a "spy" or even a double agent. The FBI raiding his home suggests that he was somehow implicated either as a foreign agent or as a compromised intelligence asset, and one side or the other wanted him back.

Maybe the USA is finally cracking down on China's "thousand talents" program.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin...

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#309

Post by Brian_K_White »

lolinder wrote: post #105
slg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the long list of problems caused by the government "disappearing" people (which they have objectively been doing lately) is that it destroys trust and therefore makes even valid legal proceedings seem more shady than they would in a world in which due process was a universal guarantee in practice. I don't fault anyone for jumping to conclusions implicating the government is in the wrong here rather than Wang.

> by the government "disappearing" anyone (which they have objectively been doing lately) Notably, they haven't been "disappearing" people in the manner that would have to be happening here. Even the most egregious cases, which are very bad, have left a paper trail for lawyers and journalists to follow. This case is notable because no one seems to know where this man has gone. But yes, point taken: the extrajudicial…

"But yes, point taken: the extrajudicial actions of ICE recently are absolutely not helping people stay calm in the face of something like this."

I find this kind of offensive and dismissive.

1, I don't see why stay calm is so appropriate. It's always more effective to persue any aim thoughtfully rather than thoughtlessly of course, but that's just "all else being equal" and not all else is equal. Another truth is the the greater the injury the greater the reaction is still valid, defensible, appropriate, etc.

2, calmness is pretty orthogonal to assessment. You can be perfectly calm while judging extrajudicial actions of ICE and others as utterly outlandish and intolerable.

3, How calm are the ICE agents when they show up and you try to decline their offer? Why aren't they required to "let's just calm down and talk this out and see if we can resolve this with civility..."?

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#310

Post by lovelearning »

sureglymop wrote: post #186
fracus wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese govt also has a pretty nasty track record of pressuring erstwhile Chinese citizens to engage in espionage by making life hard for family back in china China also has a history of establishing "police" stations in foreign countries with the mandate to harass and control expats. They did this in Canada at least, surely they did in the US too.

I can only urge you to provide one or more good primary sources if you are making such a claim. It should be a given...

What's a primary source in this context? The Chinese government?
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