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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#331

Post by LocalH »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #191
geerlingguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

Dishwasher electronics are subject to elevated heat and humidity levels. A DIY solution will be extremely unreliable. An amateurish job on the power electronics can be a fire hazard and will void any insurance policy if they find out what you did.

The world used to be driven by DIY. Now, people are afraid of it (or advocate against it) in some way. What changed?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#332

Post by necovek »

geerlingguy wrote: post #94
ryao wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have had software for decades. They were run by microcontrollers. The only difference is that it was an embedded system with no network capabilities.

And they switched from tactile controls to touch-sensitive buttons.

That's the oppression of the "sleek": touch-sensitive buttons are worse in every way except that they allow for "flatter" design.

At least we are seeing actual, tactile buttons start their return in cars!

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#333

Post by Terr_ »

bandrami wrote: post #261

I live in an apartment building whose walls don't really attenuate RF at all. And like most of the building I have a Samsung "smart" TV. So most evenings I get three or four screencast requests from neighbors' phones that I have to deny. That's annoying enough but it also stops whatever I'm watching in the process. The manual didn't include instructions for turning off Bluetooth, and when I called Samsung they said y…

> I live in an apartment building whose walls don't really attenuate RF at all.

I wonder if there's a market for special panels that block sound and common wifi/bluetooth bands...

> So most evenings I get three or four screencast requests from neighbors' phones that I have to deny. That's annoying enough but it also stops whatever I'm watching in the process.

I'd be tempted to call support every single time, and feign that I simply can't understand why their product that I purchased keeps breaking...

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#334

Post by Terr_ »

mock-possum wrote: post #318
cocoto wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply rename the device “malware” at this point.

It wouldn’t make a difference

Hmmm, if only there was some actual malware exploit which would configure "victim" devices so that they would never connect to something of the exact same bluetooth/wifi name ever again.

Then you could pick an improbable name and run a rather spicy honeypot for a while,, until there's no more activity. Then it'd be safe to turn it off and bring the real device online.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#335

Post by colechristensen »

kube-system wrote: post #174
consp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. Don't know where you are but in most countries that would be a valid reason to return it at any time you found it out. They lied to get your money, willfully is almost never a requirement.

Yeah, misrepresentation is basic contract law stuff that would be generally valid in the US too, but: 1. there's probably no evidence of it 2. the workers at the store will deny it 3. the workers at the store likely have no grasp of contract law and will insist on whatever their store policy is 4. hiring a lawyer to return a dishwasher is a waste of time for most anyone knowledgable enough to know that this is a vali…

Most retailers just have a standard return policy, it's a good idea to choose where you purchase a major appliance where you know the return policy.

For Costco it's 90 days for a major appliance, you don't have to justify yourself as to why. Some stores have terrible return policies, some have good enough policies.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#336

Post by colechristensen »

WuxiFingerHold wrote: post #297
nextts wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design. On some of their ovens there is a secret key sequence (like game cheat) to get the buttons working again. Every 6 months you need to do this otherwise pay for a service call to do this. Or have a defunct oven. But it is not public info they have released (but had been leaked on YT) So they have software with a bug and a workaround they won't tell you about. Ideally they shou…

I don't believe this. It's illegal in many countries. No way a large German (after Dieselgate they all are very cautious) company like Bosch would make such a stupid move. If they did they'd face countless lawsuits and a ban in many countries (first would be the USA).

The only thing I have ever heard about Bosch major appliances is that people hate them.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#337

Post by vasco »

tzs wrote: post #225
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

I had sort of the opposite situation. I needed a new washer and all the top rated ones according to Consumer Reports included WiFi. I asked at Home Depot if the one I was thinking of getting, an LG WM3400CW, required me to actually use the WiFi and they said no. I used it for a few weeks without ever even trying to set up WiFi and everything was fine. Then I found at that when you set up an LG washer for WiFi you can…

For energy usage, a metering plug on the same outlet you use is very cheap. For water, just take the bendy pipe and put it onto a big container and see how much water it uses. It shouldn't change much so you do it once. Wifi and the whole cloud for this seems weird.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#338

Post by schobi »

tzs wrote: post #225
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

I had sort of the opposite situation. I needed a new washer and all the top rated ones according to Consumer Reports included WiFi. I asked at Home Depot if the one I was thinking of getting, an LG WM3400CW, required me to actually use the WiFi and they said no. I used it for a few weeks without ever even trying to set up WiFi and everything was fine. Then I found at that when you set up an LG washer for WiFi you can…

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio?

If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus little security considerations?

Yea - I know. Works much better to upsell "wifi enabled" and I'm happy that the appliances only beep rarely.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#339

Post by mmooss »

UnlockedSecrets wrote: post #271
sureIy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like great use of technology if you ask me. The only thing I'd complain about is that data would not be E2E encrypted :)

In terms of a threat-risk analysis, the need of a physical microphone nearby i imagine more than makes up for the risk of an adversary knowing your water quality and electrical consumption as measured by your washer in almost everyones lives atleast..

It also indicates when you are home or out, and likely an estimate of how many people live there. It could collect more data.

Those pieces of data are combined with others, to form a full picture. This device doesn't need to collect it all itself.

Survellance of private citizens is arguably the foundation of the very dangerous problems in societies around the world, taking away freedom, health, peace, and for most, prosperity. When do you stop it?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#340

Post by locallost »

I on the other hand do want connected appliances because this will allow automation to run them when e.g. there is a lot of electricity from the sun or wind, which is the future of electricity grids. A dishwasher is perfect for this because it basically runs daily, but most of the time you don't really need it to run at a very precise time.

As for expensive control boards for the old broken down machines, I found someone on eBay that repaired them and fixed my washing machine for 40. The control board is just a plastic box with cables running to it. Disconnect, take it out, mail it, and install it once you get it back. Fixed.

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