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Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

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Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#331

Post by NicuCalcea »

crazygringo wrote: post #149
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those disagreeing, the power of defaults is incredibly powerful , most users are blissfully unaware on how to, or why they might want to change them. Sure, plenty will change it back, but many won't. We've seen this play out with Apple Maps already — Something that may get Apple in trouble too. Remember that Google was paying Apple 20 BILLION for the privilege, and a key reason they had an antitrust case against…

No, defaults aren't incredibly powerful. Chrome utterly dominates Edge on Windows, despite Edge being default. How do you explain that? The reality is that people know what they like, and most will switch to the thing they like most. Especially when it costs nothing.

Edge still makes up more than a fifth of Chrome's share on Windows. Without being the default, I expect it would be close to zero.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#332

Post by usr1106 »

immibis wrote: post #310
gregdoesit wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m one of the paying Kagi customer who wants to make Kagi my default iOS search engine, but cannot. It’s maddening that even though I paid for both my iPhone / iPad and for Kagi, Apple for some reason makes it impossible for me to make this choice (that I already made by paying for Kagi). On Chrome at least this is possible, even if it’s additional steps (I have not used the extension though there.)

You chose to buy a platform with severe restrictions. It's not like we can blame monopoly power, because Android phones are easy to get. It was legitimately your choice - it seems like for some reason you wanted the restrictions.

Choice seems to be an euphemism for everything related to private IT: For PCs there is Microsoft vs Apple. (I use Linux, but that's not for the broad masses currently.) For phones you either pay a premium to enter the Apple walled garden or you prostitute your digital life and get spied on by Google and its advertising cancer.

What would we say if there were only 2 car makers, 2 grocery chains, 2 companies building houses?

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#333

Post by j_maffe »

legitster wrote: post #81
causal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. The minute Apple changes the iPhone default, all but a few iPhone users stop using Google.

> People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. Is this actually true? Microsoft has bent over backwards trying making it inconvenient to get Chrome + Google on any new device. There's even the whole "Edge is the #1 browser to install Chrome" meme. Normies just really like Google.

It's funny you say that because as an Edge user, I constantly get bombarded with popups on Google websites asking me to switch to Chrome. It's all about who's on top and how to keep it that way, not quality.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#334

Post by j_maffe »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #197
crazygringo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, defaults aren't incredibly powerful. Chrome utterly dominates Edge on Windows, despite Edge being default. How do you explain that? The reality is that people know what they like, and most will switch to the thing they like most. Especially when it costs nothing.

Google: Hands 20 billion to Apple to keep defaults to Google. You: No, defaults aren't incredibly powerful.

Yeah I mean obviously people here in the forum know how to spend 20 billion dollars than the dumb executives there...

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#335

Post by criddell »

adeelk93 wrote: post #219
retskrad wrote: post #103

According to the judges ruling, Google’s internal data indicated that they would lose up to 80% of searches on Apple devices, resulting in a $30 billion revenue loss, if they gave up their default search position.

to whom? Bing? Yahoo? Baidu?

Maybe the payment was to stop Apple from developing their own search engine?

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#336

Post by j_maffe »

shuntress wrote: post #267
cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

> They simply have a better product This is the key. I'm not saying Google couldn't be better. But if it were possible to build a better index of the Internet, Google would do it. Spam garbage overrunning the web is the underlying issue.

> But if it were possible to build a better index of the Internet, Google would do it.

Not when it's detrimental to their sources of income, i.e. Ad Sense.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#337

Post by j_maffe »

stefan_ wrote: post #151
cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

It's like you didn't understand what this case was about at all. Google isn't paying to be first, Google is paying so nobody bothers making a competitor .

ITT: People not understand the basics of a monopoly.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#338

Post by elevatortrim »

crazygringo wrote: post #149
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those disagreeing, the power of defaults is incredibly powerful , most users are blissfully unaware on how to, or why they might want to change them. Sure, plenty will change it back, but many won't. We've seen this play out with Apple Maps already — Something that may get Apple in trouble too. Remember that Google was paying Apple 20 BILLION for the privilege, and a key reason they had an antitrust case against…

No, defaults aren't incredibly powerful. Chrome utterly dominates Edge on Windows, despite Edge being default. How do you explain that? The reality is that people know what they like, and most will switch to the thing they like most. Especially when it costs nothing.

That’s because Chrome is vastly better than Edge and that is an exceptional situation. In most other places you look, you will see people using defaults all the time, because defaults are incredibly powerful.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#339

Post by idle_zealot »

immibis wrote: post #310
gregdoesit wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m one of the paying Kagi customer who wants to make Kagi my default iOS search engine, but cannot. It’s maddening that even though I paid for both my iPhone / iPad and for Kagi, Apple for some reason makes it impossible for me to make this choice (that I already made by paying for Kagi). On Chrome at least this is possible, even if it’s additional steps (I have not used the extension though there.)

You chose to buy a platform with severe restrictions. It's not like we can blame monopoly power, because Android phones are easy to get. It was legitimately your choice - it seems like for some reason you wanted the restrictions.

Compromise on your computing freedom, compromise on your attention and privacy, when both providers are out to fuck you it doesn't really feel like you have a meaningful choice to make. Asking for an environment where fucking your customers isn't allowed feels like the only option.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#340

Post by mullingitover »

jd3 wrote: post #99

A couple passages of note: > 112. The integration of generative AI is perhaps the clearest example of competition advancing search quality. Google accelerated and launched its public piloting of Bard one day before Microsoft announced BingChat, the integration of ChatGPT’s generative AI technology into Bing to deliver answers to queries. Id. at 8272:4-7 (Reid); id. at 2670:10–2671:9 (Parakhin). (describing BingChat).…

> AI results in Google mark the first time I have ever encountered incorrect or patently untrue information at the top of a Google query.

Google search ads have been rife with scams for a while[1]. I think that counts as patently untrue information at the top of a google query.

[1] https://searchengineland.com/google-search-ads-brands-fraud-...

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