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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#331

Post by dlubarov »

mrangle wrote: post #329

I like the Walled Garden. I want the Walled Garden. Almost everyone wants the Walled Garden. Even Android users should want the Walled Garden, as a true second option. The Walled garden is fantastic. When everything just works, it's fantastic. Apple's product quality is without consumer equal. The quality a bright-light in a world otherwise brimming with hardware junk and a software wild west market. The antitrust is…

> As a longtime Windows user, Windows is a privacy and security clown show.

I'd argue this is because it lacks proper sandboxing, not because it lacks curation.

> A better so called "anti-monopoly" solution would be to build competitive products.

Even if healthy competition could exist in this space, Apple (formerly?) barring developers from saying things like "our prices are 30% higher on iOS due to Apple's tax" gets in the way of consumers making informed decisions about competing products.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#332

Post by BenFranklin100 »

leptons wrote: post #264
notyourwork wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes businesses are in the business of making money. Apple is a business. The hope for you (a consumer) is that your needs and theirs are aligned sufficiently well that they solve problems you benefit from while minimizing how much they exploit you. It’s capitalism.

What Apple's done is also violating antitrust laws, which has gotten them in trouble with the DOJ recently. And it's about time. They are a business, but an abusive anti-competitive one that has serious lock-in that bars competitors from their platform for no good reason other than to make even more money. They also forbid some apps because Apple releases something similar, and they don't want any competition. If the…

Um, there’s something called Android. No need to be on the Apple platform at all. You can switch to it if you’d like. When I walk into a Tesla dealership I don’t expect to be able to buy a Chevrolet.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#333

Post by takeda »

mrangle wrote: post #329

I like the Walled Garden. I want the Walled Garden. Almost everyone wants the Walled Garden. Even Android users should want the Walled Garden, as a true second option. The Walled garden is fantastic. When everything just works, it's fantastic. Apple's product quality is without consumer equal. The quality a bright-light in a world otherwise brimming with hardware junk and a software wild west market. The antitrust is…

Just because you love walled garden, doesn't mean others think the same. In fact you are the minority. This is especially visible on Android, where Google introduced side loading since the beginning and is struggling how to disable it. For example by blocking it in new android based products like Android TV.

Or EU ruling that Apple needs to provide side loading, so Apple still only enables it on EU SIMs, making it hard to still build products with it.

You mentioning Windows that it's "a privacy and security a clown show". Yet you are dismissing that Linux is for servers. That still doesn't change the fact that Linux is even desktop is much more secure though. Also mobile problems was not solved by mobile phones, in fact it was much worse, and more recent windows versions "backported" those ideas.

> It wasn't conceived, for example, to stop car manufacturers from engineering the cars to accept parts that are only made for their cars.

That's not what antitrust law supposed to protect. It's clear that different products will have different parts, what antitrust laws would do (if they weren't rendered toothless) would punish any blocking of competitors springing up.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#334

Post by BenFranklin100 »

pompino wrote: post #142
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

The only thing Apple cares about is Apple making more money. they will gladly gouge the end User so that their executives can line their pockets. there is nobody here you can actually ”trust”.

/r/chapotraphouse

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#335

Post by kimmeld »

riffic wrote: post #226
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

yall have to remember, there was a time you couldn't hook up your own landline telephone without it being one manufactured by Ma Bell herself (western electric) and rented out through an installment plan on your bill. Culturally the phone company (and the descendant cellular operators) were very much of this philosophical outlook. This page goes into particulars about the historically closed nature of the phone syste…

Apple won’t let you install software you wrote onto your own computer. Culturally the same as Ma Bell.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#336

Post by BenFranklin100 »

Repulsion9513 wrote: post #313
simonh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However for Apple to keep making money they need to satisfy their users, so as with all commercial relationships there is a direct commercial incentive that aligns customer and vendor interests. The interesting question is how and why those interests align, and when and where they diverge. The answer to that will be different for different customers, or potential customers. A lot of iPhone customers like me are quite…

Satisfying your users - particularly, satisfying them only enough that they don't spend significant effort and money to leave - is an incredibly, laughably low bar.

It’s dead simple to switch from Apple to Android and vice versa. Or are you trying to say Android is such a significantly more difficult platform that Apple users are too stupid to figure out and thus locked into iOS? Otherwise your argument applies to Android as easily as it does to iOS.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#337

Post by lotsofpulp »

hu3 wrote: post #131
op00to wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Force”? No one is forced to give in to peer pressure by buying something. It’s one thing to want to fit in, but then we should also force clothing to not have visible brands so kids can’t compare what clothes they have, and youth sports teams so kids can’t exclude non-sports playing peers.

The analogy doesn't hold because Nike shirts looks and behaves just the same regardless of my jeans brand. Whereas a green bubble means degraded experience for the entire messaging group just because of that one guy.

Then use the myriad other cross platform apps.

Also, one’s appearance can also cause a group to be viewed and treated differently, akin to degrading the “experience”.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#338

Post by Gigablah »

Nullabillity wrote: post #328
Dalewyn wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a needlessly esoteric, bad guide. The first three steps can be simplified into "Obtain an installation media.", and the fourth step of updating your BIOS has nothing to do with Windows specifically. Creating a local account is basic sense (no, not common sense; we aren't common people), and not connecting to the internet during install is recommended but not a hard requirement. Installing drivers while avoiding…

> Just pay up for a Professional license and save your time and nerves. What on earth. This is stockholm syndrome in a nutshell.

Stockholm syndrome is continuing to stay on Windows.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#339

Post by samirillian »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #326
samirillian wrote: post #292

I recently bought an iPhone due to peer pressure after using pixel for years. I think the ux is better on android, every common function takes more gestures on iPhone. Typing this comment reminds me of how annoying it is to edit text with an iPhone. I think there was maybe a time when iPhone ux was better but maybe not. Still I feel better from the perspective of pure vanity when I pull the iPhone out, or those blue…

What kind of peer pressure did you experience to get an iphone? This doesn't seem to exist in my circles.

For example when you're on a group chat and somebody sends a video and the quality gets degraded and so somebody makes funny of the guy who shared the video but the guy is like "somebody on the group chat has android". and then my pixel was literally being held together by tape and one of the guys is like, dude, why are you such a contrarian, just get an iphone, and true detective was good!

but true detective is not good, it's good bad.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#340

Post by imchillyb »

distances wrote: post #146
rpdillon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's economic. The US has free texting these days, which means SMS has more usage here than in another countries. This has prevented the entire nation from coalesing around one chat app, as so many others have.

Every country in Europe I'm familiar with has free texts, but I think I can count with one hand the SMS I've received in the last ~10 years from actual people. Absolutely nobody sends SMS over here. Might be that US got the free texts first though. Not sure anymore what was the timeline with that.

When Whatsapp was released, free text messaging was not a thing for most of europe. The USA had long since ditched charging for sms messaging by that point, so the attractiveness of a free communications app wasn't there.

Also, there are carriers in europe that offer bundle discounts and better data packages for opting out of sms altogether.

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