Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 345 posts

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#331

Post by programmertote »

twojobsoneboss wrote: post #106
programmertote wrote: post #81

I left Amazon a month ago (voluntarily) for a fully remote role because they asked me to move to Seattle/Arlington. When I joined them, I was already in a different state because of my wife's work. So I told them, I cannot join if they don't give me remote exception; it took them ~4-5 weeks to get the sign off for remote exception from the VP. I took the job and 9 months in, Jassy decided to force everyone back to th…

How much of a TC cut did you have to take between Amazon and your current employer?

$5250 USD (not including the bonus at my new firm, which is expected to range from $5K-$35K; higher cell phone reimbursement; 50% internet reimbursement and $350 yearly allowance for equipment, etc. at the new company). Most importantly (for me), I get paid twice a month at the new company. All in all, I'd say the TC is about the same.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#332

Post by programmertote »

godelski wrote: post #159
programmertote wrote: post #81

I left Amazon a month ago (voluntarily) for a fully remote role because they asked me to move to Seattle/Arlington. When I joined them, I was already in a different state because of my wife's work. So I told them, I cannot join if they don't give me remote exception; it took them ~4-5 weeks to get the sign off for remote exception from the VP. I took the job and 9 months in, Jassy decided to force everyone back to th…

> started working at 9 am and log out at 5pm pronto. Isn't this 7-7.5 hrs? Are you not required to take at least a 30 minute break within that period? Or does Amazon pay for lunch? I thought 9-5 was a myth/thing of the past.

It includes lunch break at 12pm-1pm. I can confidently tell that most of my former coworkers (since RTO mandate) have been taking it slow/easy more so than they used to be.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#333

Post by shortrounddev2 »

sokoloff wrote: post #325
no_wizard wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted, the person who wrote in to the Washington Post is well meaning and all and I know her write in was edited down for brevity, but it seems like this lady is bringing on alot of the problems herself and not seeing that. Also, is there an underlying problem with retention, re this comment: >Developing a rapport with “Bob” could help me anticipate when the lack of promotion opportunity is about to make him jump s…

There are limits to promotion at any company. Probably no limits from fresh-college-grad to the next level of software engineer (SWE-2 or equivalent). That becomes less true at higher levels. If Bob is a Vice President of Tech, reporting to the CTO, Bob may have no realistic prospect to be promoted to any position other than CTO and if the CTO is successful and not leaving, then Bob has a lack of promotion opportunit…

Yes but the employee has no incentive to return to the office so that they can be more easily replaced. Return to office is one-sided: middle management think they will gain something (they won't), but the employee gains nothing and loses a lot.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#334

Post by cdchn »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #318
Spivak wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know you're just parroting RTO thought leadership propaganda, right? The phrasing of structuring your work "in time and space" is rather unique and comes most recently from business thinkfluencers trying sell RTO as "new paradigm at the workplace." The real point underpinning the CEO ball fondling is strategies for creating structure for people that need it originally assembled for students working async and r…

Sorry, I've never read a "business thinkfluencer" in my life. Wouldn't even know where to find one. The undeniable fact is that people want "work from home" because they have serious issues following schedules and making plans. (Of course working from home only sweeps the problem under the carpet and creates bigger problems down the road.) Yes, these cats need to be herded. They can't self-organize. Also, the methods…

>The undeniable fact is that people want "work from home" because they have serious issues following schedules and making plans.

Of course it has nothing to do with avoiding potentially multi-hour long commutes.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#335

Post by bitcharmer »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #318
Spivak wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know you're just parroting RTO thought leadership propaganda, right? The phrasing of structuring your work "in time and space" is rather unique and comes most recently from business thinkfluencers trying sell RTO as "new paradigm at the workplace." The real point underpinning the CEO ball fondling is strategies for creating structure for people that need it originally assembled for students working async and r…

Sorry, I've never read a "business thinkfluencer" in my life. Wouldn't even know where to find one. The undeniable fact is that people want "work from home" because they have serious issues following schedules and making plans. (Of course working from home only sweeps the problem under the carpet and creates bigger problems down the road.) Yes, these cats need to be herded. They can't self-organize. Also, the methods…

Congratulations, this is the most confidently incorrect set of statements I've read on the internet this week.

I pity people who'd have to work under you. Sheesh.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#336

Post by bitcharmer »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #84
lolinder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it takes being in person for your management to tell that someone is not doing anything and PIP/fire them, then I'd certainly call that poor management. You shouldn't have to look over my shoulder to know that I'm doing my job.

The mangement had several years to collect data. Maybe they checked the numbers and found that, yes, people on average are less productive when working from home. Is that surprising or unexpected somehow?

MBA's don't follow scientific method. Engineers do.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#337

Post by bitcharmer »

bolvyk wrote: post #6

People really want to push remote work as being great for businesses. The sad reality is that it’s not (at least for knowledge workers)… it kills productivity and the output is always lower quality.

This is hilariously incorrect. It's the exact opposite for knowledge workers :)

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#338

Post by monknomo »

mardifoufs wrote: post #282
w4 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was commenting on the broader cultural shift on HN over the past 15+ years, not on RTO vs WFH.

Oh, agreed then. Tbh, it could be worse. Founder culture seems to have disappeared in favor or crypto or internet "entrepreneurs", and that still seems to be pretty rare here. Not sure if there is any actual founder community still left

yeah, where's the people that want to build a business that makes something or provides a service rather than build a business that provides a successful exit?

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#339

Post by whywhywhywhy »

SantalBlush wrote: post #265
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #73

If you don't want RTO just leave and work somewhere where remote is the culture. I just don't get this whole thing where you're still trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Just better for everyone if the in office people work in office and the remote people go to remote companies.

There seems to be a common assumption that if workers don't like something, they have a moral obligation to keep their mouths shut and "just leave". This assumption is, of course, wrong.

Company doesn’t owe them a job.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#340

Post by Ray20 »

CBarkleyU wrote: post #153
Ray20 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why dont I steal when I have the opportunity? Dunno maybe because I'm a decent human being? Why do you feel like you would steal from the company if given the opportunity?

Why don't you try leaving your laptop on a park bench for a couple of days? Maybe because not all people are like you?

And even more people, most people I would say, are not right-wing absolutists and they in all seriousness believe that it is the employer who robs them when they do the agreed work. So, in their minds, they don't even consider themselves doing anything wrong, they are just taking the opportunity to get a little compensation for what was stolen from them

Post reply on HN