CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management • Hacker News Board

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#71

Post by symfoniq » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #3

In a lot of ways RTO has put working conditions in a worse spot than they were pre-pandemic. In the Before Times occasional remoting was informal and casual - if you had a doctor's appointment at an odd time, you'd remote for the day, with no formal approval nor teeth-gnashing. Now even small everyday things like this are fraught. There are often formal approval chains now for what used to be entirely between you and…

Wish I could give this more upvotes. I was fully remote for more than a decade before COVID, but now I’m seeing all the same things you’ve written about here. It’s a huge regression.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#72

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

dpflan wrote: post #63

"Offices across the U.S. are at an all-time occupancy low, and commercial real estate is starting to see an all-time high of almost 20% of unleased space, according to the Wall Street Journal. The reduction in real estate spend has enabled companies to reduce their operating expenses, thereby positively impacting their financial health. This poses the question: Are return-to-work mandates better for the workforce or…

[deleted]

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#73

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

If you don't want RTO just leave and work somewhere where remote is the culture. I just don't get this whole thing where you're still trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Just better for everyone if the in office people work in office and the remote people go to remote companies.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#74

Post by macspoofing » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

OK - let's say that's true. That's not an argument against the RTO Mandate. It's an argument for it because the case that is being made is that in-office management is easier.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#75

Post by Waterluvian » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

crowcroft wrote: post #26

Is it possible for someone to 1. Be a really good 'in person' manager (able to foster a good in-office culture, motivate and coach people effectively in real time). 2. Be a really bad 'remote' manager. Not saying RTO mandates are a good idea, but to say it's masking poor management as a black and white statement lacks nuance.

I’ve experienced this. Someone who fixated on back to office and hiring local devs because the only way he knew how to manage was coming to your desk and harassing you. He had trust issues.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#76

Post by datadrivenangel » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

crowcroft wrote: post #26

Is it possible for someone to 1. Be a really good 'in person' manager (able to foster a good in-office culture, motivate and coach people effectively in real time). 2. Be a really bad 'remote' manager. Not saying RTO mandates are a good idea, but to say it's masking poor management as a black and white statement lacks nuance.

There are different skills that are needed around structuring communications. Good remote work requires significantly more formal communications, while good in-person work merely benefits immensely from the same level of formality.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#77

Post by kaonashi » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

bolvyk wrote: post #6

People really want to push remote work as being great for businesses. The sad reality is that it’s not (at least for knowledge workers)… it kills productivity and the output is always lower quality.

you know what else kills productivity? long covid

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#78

Post by LiquidSky » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #36

LiquidSky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except every study done since the pandemic has shown no effect on productivity from remote work, yet somehow every thread on this is filled with totally real stories about someone they know who doesn't work.

They are real. What they are missing is that said person wasn't working much before. They only noticed their lack of output when working remotely, as busyness was no longer visible.

Except no one can actually measure or confirm these apparent hordes of lazy slackers that are totally out there. Just legions of secret non-working people.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#79

Post by otabdeveloper4 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #30

cdchn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of people who go into offices and blatantly don't work.

Yeah being in office doesn't make it any less difficult to scroll through Reddit.

Yes it does. Working in the office necessarily forces you to structure your work in time and space.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#80

Post by datadrivenangel » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

melenaboija wrote: post #60

alberth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% Also, the tools a manager needs for 'remote management' is very different than what's needed for in-person. It's also very possible managers are not given the tools needed to manage a remote workforce.

What tools are needed for better remote management?

More formal communications and explicit cultural norms around communication.

People in office do tend to communicate organically with the humans around them, but online it's much harder.