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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#331

Post by phtrivier »

sokoloff wrote: post #86
ivraatiems wrote: post #65

I would just like us all to stop pretending that any of one's fear of COVID or skepticism of vaccines or distrust of whoever or whatever is about rational calculated risks. It's about how we feel, so let's talk about that. Look, everyone is scared of doing something until they're scared of not doing it. Everyone distrusts government until they trust it, and distrusts pharma until they trust it. Some people will wear…

Having some uncertainty around novel things seems reasonable. We were all uncertain around COVID and around new vaccines using a novel mechanism. People balanced those uncertainties differently. I took the course of asking people I generally trusted for their opinion and concluded that taking the vaccines (3 for me so far, plus a bout of naturally-acquired resistance via infection) was indicated. There were other doc…

Except when the only thing that can inform a good decision is _time_ ; and when you can ask every trustworthy people you know, and they will simply not have a clue _yet_, because no one does and we're in the middle of the fog of war.

But I suppose we all preferred pretending we knew _somethings_.

How about we get some empathy for the people who just ended up on the many bad sides of the many bets ?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#332

Post by InvaderFizz »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #248
lispisok wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We went from finding out pharma companies exploded the opiate epidemic to people getting tattoos of the brand of covid vaccine they got in a few years. Just because pharma companies make some useful products does not make them good actors. Of course Pfizer is going to say everybody needs another covid booster shot. Every time they convince people they need another it's billions in revenue.

do you have a link? google just leads to stuff about how long to wait with a tattoo after vaccination.

Searching booster tattoo on Twitter has a few hits. But I think they are all photoshop.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#333

Post by morpheuskafka »

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

You didn't have any luck making a CICP claim? It says they have approved five myocarditis claims in principle, but it seems a lot less well documented than the corresponding VICP ("vaccine court") for regular vaccines. It's a bit disconcerting that the CICP is not overseen by a court the way the VICP is.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#334

Post by nightski »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #267
beebmam wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. People with insurance have zero idea how much medical care actually costs because it's really hard to keep up with all the health insurance documents one receives. Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast. (I was, twice, circa 2010. I was unemployed and uninsured)

People who get their insurance through their employer also typically have no idea how much their insurance premium costs because the average employer pays 70-80% of the actual monthly premium and what gets deducted from your paycheck every month is just the remainder.

I'm guessing you are correct, seeing as in a similar fashion I'd imagine there are a lot of people who have no idea what their 401(k) is even invested in.

However when going through the annual election process it generally makes it very clear how much you are paying out of each paycheck and what the employer contributes. Now whether people pay attention at all I can't say.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#335

Post by robomartin »

scifibestfi wrote: post #64
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

> You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

I am being as honest as I can be with regards to our feelings on this. I can't say we are angry about that incident at all. I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot. Frankly, I don't even remember if the data was available (I do think it was, BTW). Remember, at the time, only about 700 cases.

Of course, the outcome might have had something to do with the lack of negative emotions. I can probably admit our position today would be massively different had we had to face a range of negative outcomes post-hospitalization. These can range from life-long afflictions to death.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#336

Post by nradov »

xracy wrote: post #164
spfzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like, in the absence of assurance of long-term safety, you would recommend the vaccine for at-risk groups only. It's known now that the risk to young people (under 19) is minimal: IFR < 3/1,000,000. And that was during the much more dangerous early strain of Covid-19, not the ones circulating now. Yet here we are in 2022 with a recommendation from the CDC to vaccinate ages 5 and up, regardless of health…

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

The COVID-19 fatality risk for children is very low overall (0.002% estimated by the CDC). Those deaths have almost all been in patients with severe pre-existing health conditions such as obesity. For pediatric patients without pre-existing conditions, the death rate is virtually zero. So from a public health perspective it's most important to focus vaccination campaigns on those at greatest risk.

https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2021-052273

https://doi.org/10.1111%2Fijpo.12920

To be clear, I am not telling anyone to avoid vaccination for themselves or their children. Vaccination is a good option for the vast majority of patients. Talk to your doctor.

And ironically, school closures and lockdowns during the pandemic actually increased the rate of childhood obesity. The purported "cure" was not only worse than the disease, it actually made the disease worse by placing children at greater risk.

https://www.cureus.com/articles/107920-increased-incidence-o...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#337

Post by anon291 »

frant-hartm wrote: post #59
anon291 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, except for the 20+ million lives they saved: There is no reason to expect 20 million people in the United States would have died if we had taken a european approach to vaccination approvals.

What was different in EU? Didn't we approve the same vaccines few weeks later?

In certain countries of the EU, boosters are not approved for younger people.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#338

Post by xracy »

ckw wrote: post #297
xracy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

There are 5 reports of death following Covid-19 vaccination in VAERS for children 0.5-5, and ‘1.6 million US children ages 6 months-4 years have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine’ as of 11-2-22. This is 3.125 deaths per million, and VAERS notoriously undercounts. There are 31 reports of death following Covid-19 vaccination for children 5-12, and ‘10.9 million US children ages 5-11 have received at least…

EDIT: I wasn't kidding when I said I can play numbers and statistics all day.

When you say "VAERS notoriously undercounts", I think you're probably referring to the flu vaccine (where we would have historical data), but I don't think it's fair to say that would be true for the Covid vaccine.

Specifically because at the onset of this new vaccine, people are much more likely to report that a death happened after a covid vaccine. There is a segment of the population that has never trusted the covid vaccine, so they are a lot more likely to report a death after vaccination of a loved one. Also as the vaccine is new, there's probably a lot more data gathering around it because scientists would definitely like to know if the vaccine causes death. Lastly, it's an event you're much more likely to have talked to with your loved ones before you passed away, than with the flu vaccine.

My family knows I got a covid vaccine. My family has no idea about my flu vaccine status.

Lastly, and most importantly, the numbers for those are not intrinsically linked. There's not actually any implied causal link in any of those numbers "VAERS Covid/Flu Vaccine Reported Deaths by Days to Onset all Ages". They are all just correlated. If you want to look for a causal link you'd have to compare against the total number of people who got vaccines on that day. And then compare against total number of deaths for the whole population.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#339

Post by origin_path »

greenyoda wrote: post #184
sharken wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least provide some facts to the 2000 people a week claim.

The CDC is reporting 2344 COVID deaths per week: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

Be aware that since Omicron virtually all of those are dying "with" COVID, not of it. Examples collected from the Milwaukee coroner's office:

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/six-recent-covid-deaths-...

That's why the age skew is so high.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#340

Post by bonzini »

jjcon wrote: post #303
sfusato wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They stopped recommending further boosters to younger people after the 1st booster. These 50+ or 65+ only recommendations are rather recent. That's all I'm saying. You would need to account only from the 2nd booster onwards basically.

> They stopped recommending further boosters to younger people after the 1st booster. Which country(s) specifically changed their guidance about boosters after the 1st booster was released? Again I'm not aware of large swings in policy in most of these countries. Some aren't recommending 4th doses yet but I don't think any have changed policies about boosters after the fact.

Almost all European countries (perhaps all?) have changed policies about further boosters. For example in Italy the first booster was recommended to everyone and required to prolong the validity of the vaccination certificate, but the second (Omicron specific) is only recommended to the same categories for which the flu vaccine is recommended yearly.
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