Live data from Hacker News

Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

businessinsider.com

331–340 of 496 posts

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only true if you're working entirely or mostly synchronously, which might be an indicator of inherent anti-patterns in your work culture and processes, e.g., lots of meetings instead of written documentation.

Some people don't want to be alone, interacting with a JIRA queue their whole life. I miss coffee with coworkers. I miss being human at work.

You can be human in a distributed setting, too.

There are all sorts of tools that allow for an asynchronous human connection, e.g., asynchronous video recordings.

Working mostly asynchronously also doesn’t mean you can’t have the occasional synchronous online meeting (including coffee) as well.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s like the Trump hate, irrational and all encompassing.

Why do you think the trump hate is irrational? What is the main rational points and reasons you like Trump? Or at least, think that he is being unfairly treated, since that does not require liking/agreeing with him.

I despise the man, but if you are shifting a long held position/opinion just because you don’t want to be in an opinion alignment with Donald Trump, that to me is irrational.

I saw a lot of folks do this over the last six years. I found that really strange.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#333
post #44

I don't understand. That's unfortunately how it is, sadly enough. Should they have fired another person instead just because of location? I believe they should have not given the GO at all to the hiring manager, but hey... these CEOs nowadays like to take full responsibility accountability blabla-ility for their actions :) Some years ago I worked at a company that had to fire 3 people. They picked one of the guys tha…

"don't understand. That's unfortunately how it is, sadly enough. Should they have fired another person instead just because of location" I see this as their fuckup, the job for a new hire should exist for at least 6 months, and if that means they cant fire and one and have to eat the loss, thats their problem. Decisions have consequences, except for conpanies it seems.

> Decisions have consequences, except for conpanies it seems.

It's a risk you take by leaving your continent and flying to another one without any permanent residence permit. It's really shit, but that's how it is. It's always been the case, it just makes now the news because it's Facebook.

As I mentioned above, an ex colleague of mine moved from South America to Europe without even speaking the country's language and he got fired shortly before the probation period. Same situation: visa, no job, etc. Actually he got kids and one of them even enrolled last minute at the kindergarten. He didn't write any blog or anything, he simply found another job the fastest he could find. But again, it's not Facebook, so of course it doesn't make the news.

The only thing I can wish for is of course that these people can find a job right away in the country they move to. At least this guy can say to the next employer "I made it to Facebook", which should still count for someting..., and he/she can even speak the language.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so many people are okay coming into another country and wage dump because "its their right" to move halfway across the world to work in the USA or EU. See stuff like: https://www.thelocal.se/20070523/7387/ You can't have it both ways. ---- I guess this is just CBS being racist :) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused ... "But this week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker reports that…

For the USA, you can't attain an H1-B / E-3 / without your employer compensating you above the prevailing wage[0] (determined by the DoL) paid in the city you are being hired in in the field you are being hired in. [0] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/foreign-labor/wages#:~:text... .

Is that real in practice?

I have heard they can just claim "oh we cant find anyone!" and get someone for cheaper abroad.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused...

"But this week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker reports that the H-1B visa program has since been seriously abused, allowing companies to fire American workers and to bring in cheap foreign labor."

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You yourself have no empathy for those who would make those supposedly "harsh, inhuman, uncaring, comments" That's fine. You don't have to go down infinite meta-levels of empathy. You can just treat nazis like scum, and jerks like jerks. As long as you treat other people well and with compassion, you would still be behaving far better and more positively than how those who would make those supposedly "harsh, inhuma…

> As long as you treat other people well and with compassion And you just choose who you consider "people" and who you consider "scum". It's like that old joke about Linux being user-friendly, it's just very picky about who it considers a user. That position is shit, though.

>And you just choose who you consider "people" and who you consider "scum".

Yes. That's necessary too. Did you rather treat everybody as an undifferentiated fog? Compassion is not about bending over backwards for jerks.

>It's like that old joke about Linux being user-friendly, it's just very picky about who it considers a user.

Even that is very defensible: you can be user-friendly for different groups with different needs - and this often does not translate to being user-friendly to everybody.

E.g. if you try to please admins, and developers, and power users, and professionals, you won't also be user friendly in the sense that an OS focused on consumers or a program aimed at children is.

What a professional designer considers must-have and user-friendly features (to him as a user) and what someone who just shot a couple of holiday photos and wants to resize them considers user frienly, is not the same thing...

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#336

And so many people are okay coming into another country and wage dump because "its their right" to move halfway across the world to work in the USA or EU. See stuff like: https://www.thelocal.se/20070523/7387/ You can't have it both ways. ---- I guess this is just CBS being racist :) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused ... "But this week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker reports that…

You have zero clue of what you're talking about, don't shame yourself this bad in public.

I guess this is just CBS being racist :)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused...

"But this week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker reports that the H-1B visa program has since been seriously abused, allowing companies to fire American workers and to bring in cheap foreign labor."

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#337
Immigration related to work is generally shitty in almost any country worth working in.

Even in countries not worth working in.

In many countries, Once your employer fires you, then you have 7 days to leave the country. Period.

The US/Canada/UK are relatively friendly about this and give a bit more leeway.

Don’t get me started on Indian work permits.

Yes it’s horrible all around. Working in another country is always a risk and on a whim you can get shafted by your employer.

Always have, or start working on a plan B immediately (savings, side project, more money).

And please don’t get started on “I’m not able to do anything else” - because that’s not true and if you think about it there is always unrelated things you csn do to get around this.

As a person who worked in a few countries - I’m always aware or the fact that at any moment below permanent residency, everything could be pulled away.

Please everyone reading about this guy’s fate, never leave your future in the hands of an employer or immigration authorities.

Start working on a plan B and a way out - just in case.

Anything otherwise is just putting your head in the sand.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#338
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this literally what's happening? (Except it's 4 months, not 3?)

The problem is not so much the money, but the damn Visa: The moment you become unemployed, the countdown clock to deportation starts ticking. This is a HUGE stress, and also puts you at a disadvantage against your prospect employers. IMHO, there should be legislation for covering these cases. I.e. when you sponsor a Visa as an employer, it should be mandatory to pay the employee for a minimum of 12-24 months. If you…

Depending on the type of visa, it's not even like the situation depends on employment. I've seen a few people with stable jobs sent home from the US when their visa came up for renewal. Immigrating to the west, the USA in particular but also Canada, involves an element of luck, beyond what most people realize.

edit: To be very fair, though, there is an implicit warning in the paperwork and interview for every US work visa for exactly this kind of situation. It's not like they're playing some gotcha game. They don't come right out and say it, but, it's also not exactly hidden between the lines or in small print.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#339

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

I'm not reading the comments here the same way at all, as a "lack of even the most basic of human decency". Rather, I'm seeing it more as just -- that's just life, what makes this particular case so special? People move for jobs all the time (including internationally), and shit happens all the time (you get laid off, your significant other breaks up with you, a loved one passes away). It would be one thing if Facebo…

specially under the following conditions:

"Everyone will get an email soon letting you know what this layoff means for you. After that, every affected employee will have the opportunity to speak with someone to get their questions answered and join information sessions.

Some of the details in the US include:

Severance. We will pay 16 weeks of base pay plus two additional weeks for every year of service, with no cap.

PTO. We’ll pay for all remaining PTO time.

RSU vesting. Everyone impacted will receive their November 15, 2022 vesting.

Health insurance. We’ll cover the cost of healthcare for people and their families for six months.

Career services. We’ll provide three months of career support with an external vendor, including early access to unpublished job leads.

Immigration support. I know this is especially difficult if you’re here on a visa. There’s a notice period before termination and some visa grace periods, which means everyone will have time to make plans and work through their immigration status. We have dedicated immigration specialists to help guide you based on what you and your family need.

Outside the US, support will be similar, and we’ll follow up soon with separate processes that take into account local employment laws."

https://facebook.relayto.com/e/mark-zuckerberg-s-message-to-...

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#340
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree. Giving a neutral, business sounding label to something like this, and normalising it doesn't make it right. As an interaction between two individuals, this would be immediately recognised as morally wrong, even if contractually right. Isn't morality supposed to scale?

Theoretically it is; practically corporations are implicitly immoral - they’re not human, they have no feelings, it’s only left to whatever (HR in this case) procedures are in place to ensure a positive outcome. Such procedures tend to fail when you move fast and break things.

I think you might have meant amoral not immoral or you stand by your phrasing?
Post reply on HN