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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#331

Post by jmyeet »

I'm torn on the subject of student debt because I think some of the blame here belongs with the students and their families. Yes, you can argue that you shouldn't give 18 year olds 6 figures in non-dischargeable debt. That's a valid point.

But part of why people get into so much debt I think is because many people are taught from a very young age to "follow your dreams" and that they're special, an exception to the rule. Sure 95% of those who get a PhD in the humanities never get a tenured position but this time it's different.

At what point do the people taking out loans in fields with limited earning potential and the parents who fan the flames of this delusion share some of the responsibility? You are not special [1].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CnryN0_bvY

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#332

Post by QuarterReptile »

synergy20 wrote: post #280
rayiner wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. Only 2% of Bangladeshis go to college. Are the rest not adults? Indeed, I’d say the opposite is true. Apart from job training, the main function of college in America seems to be extending adolescence and deferring dealing with the real world. 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult” than many college-educated 30-some…

college is delaying young people to become mature, we're producing giant babies these days, thanks to endless parenting, online gaming, social screen time, now probably even metaverse, you name it. on the STEM subject, teens good at math are never teacher's favorites, instead they're called nerds and some are even isolated from the rest, it's quite the opposite in Asia, or even in Europe. That's the root cause we nee…

>college is delaying young people to become mature, we're producing giant babies these days,

A good interpretation of humans generally is 'giant baby monkeys', in that we have curiosity and openness consistent with juveniles but not with most adult animals.

>on the STEM subject, teens good at math are never teacher's favorites, instead they're called nerds and some are even isolated from the rest,

This doesn't bear any resemblance to my experience of a not-so-special US public school in the 2000s.

I'm not saying your comment is without valid points, but you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater on your attitude about childhood.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#333

Post by warent »

jmyeet wrote: post #331

I'm torn on the subject of student debt because I think some of the blame here belongs with the students and their families. Yes, you can argue that you shouldn't give 18 year olds 6 figures in non-dischargeable debt. That's a valid point. But part of why people get into so much debt I think is because many people are taught from a very young age to "follow your dreams" and that they're special, an exception to the r…

Quoting the philosophy of a character who was suffering from a catastrophic mental illness to the point of terrorism and suicide really takes away from your point

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#334

Post by droidist2 »

Schiendelman wrote: post #324
droidist2 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they looked more adult. If you look at a high school year book from decades ago the seniors look like they're in their 30s. Maybe this means time is speeding up, or that life was harder then which aged them, like how outdoor cats often look all haggard. Then again was life really that much harder in the 1960s?

I suspect that what you’re seeing is that they were less overweight, which appears to us as “older” in young people.

That is true, and diet could be a factor. Also I read men's testosterone levels have been dropping which could lead to them starting to shave later.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#335

Post by chrisseaton »

jmyeet wrote: post #331

I'm torn on the subject of student debt because I think some of the blame here belongs with the students and their families. Yes, you can argue that you shouldn't give 18 year olds 6 figures in non-dischargeable debt. That's a valid point. But part of why people get into so much debt I think is because many people are taught from a very young age to "follow your dreams" and that they're special, an exception to the r…

> Sure 95% of those who get a PhD in the humanities never get a tenured position but this time it's different.

Why do people think the only valid outcome from a PhD is tenure in an academic institution?

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#336

Post by selimthegrim »

Tretiotrr wrote: post #120
boppo1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, I got a 2.3 GPA in highschool and college but would love to try again. Where should I apply? I don't mind moving to Germany.

You only need to Google for it. https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/universities You are a little bit limited by what you like to study if you don't speak German as not every university offers a bachelor in English but it's doable.

I think an American HS diploma doesn't qualify you for admission unless you do well on the SAT or ACT.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#337

Post by R0b0t1 »

klipt wrote: post #245
dantheman wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is student loans, if the students don't have the money the college will adapt to be less expensive.

Europe has cheap high quality colleges, I believe part of the difference is European colleges exist mainly to teach, while American colleges are a mini city with expensive sports teams and stadiums, large bureaucracy with many layers of admin, fancy facilities not directly related to education, etc, all to attract students to pay high fees.

Europe is not some magical place where everyone goes to college. Lots of people don't, and have no ability to go, because the billets are fixed by statute.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#338

Post by pengaru »

synergy20 wrote: post #280
rayiner wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. Only 2% of Bangladeshis go to college. Are the rest not adults? Indeed, I’d say the opposite is true. Apart from job training, the main function of college in America seems to be extending adolescence and deferring dealing with the real world. 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult” than many college-educated 30-some…

college is delaying young people to become mature, we're producing giant babies these days, thanks to endless parenting, online gaming, social screen time, now probably even metaverse, you name it. on the STEM subject, teens good at math are never teacher's favorites, instead they're called nerds and some are even isolated from the rest, it's quite the opposite in Asia, or even in Europe. That's the root cause we nee…

> college is delaying young people to become mature, we're producing giant babies these days, thanks to endless parenting, online gaming, social screen time, now probably even metaverse, you name it.

It persists into the professional space, just look at how infantilizing Silicon Valley became, trying to turn the workplace into a playpen complete with propeller head hats.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#339

Post by manuelabeledo »

flatiron wrote: post #315
manuelabeledo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite understand where you are going with this. Have you hired US nationals, or US educated people? Either way, I haven’t seen many US educated people in Europe, and especially in Portugal. > This is for developer positions I would expect it different if you are hiring line cooks. I’m a lead engineer myself. Again, I yet have to find anyone in Europe who would have primary and secondary education in the US in…

For both places I was simply filling roles. I think maybe 80% local and 20% us nationals? Maybe 90/10? Probably 50% had US educations listed. Maybe 40%? But it’s not like I didn’t see any. I’m not sure what you think is surprising. US people study abroad too. It’s very common and tech people tend to pick US because it’s heavy in tech.

> Probably 50% had US educations listed. Maybe 40%?

That is an extremely large percentage if the candidate pool was chosen at random. That would be surprising in Europe.

Anyway, I didn’t say it was surprising, but it is rare.

> US people study abroad too. It’s very common and tech people tend to pick US because it’s heavy in tech.

Sure. But there is a difference between hiring US nationals abroad, who likely would be US educated, and US educated Portuguese or German nationals, who are a very small minority of the population, and that’s what I was asking.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#340

Post by HarryHirsch »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #162
mind-blight wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labor market - especially the low paid labor market - is a lot less liquid than it needs to be for pure supply/demand to work in the US (that's also taking human suffering caused by poverty out of the equation, which is pretty callous). Laissez-faire markets are also bad at taking negative externalities into account. Food being too expensive to afford in the stores while it's also rotting in the fields (which has…

> Children not being being effectively taught because teachers are quitting due to burnout and terrible wages is really bad. The market for teachers, at least in the US, is not a 'laissez-faire market'.

The market for teachers, at least in the US, is not a 'laissez-faire market'

Whatever that means. In Alabama the low wages and poor working conditions have now led to a grave teacher shortage. The government's solution? Suspend teacher certification. To use graphic imagery: the talent pool is full of piss, let's open it to the incontinents!

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