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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#331

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

gzer0 wrote: post #233

Is there anything in this mandate that prevents corporations from listing unreasonably large ranges? For the sake of this example, let's say FAANG is looking for a software engineer and the range for the job listing is: 68k - 600k . Would this be allowed? I ask because Denver, Colorado has identical mandated restrictions for job listings, and employers are skirting regulations by offering ridiculously broad ranges, p…

Also, won't companies just make narrow job titles sometimes only held by one person?

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#332

Post by conradfr »

esnard wrote: post #236
marsRoverDev wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem at least in France is that prospective employers will demand your pay slips from your previous job. If you are early in your career, they will use this to depress your wages as much as possible, making arguments like "well, we can't just give you a 40% uplift". So if your first employer screws you, the ones that follow can as well. Personally, I would just forge one with a much higher pay level - but most…

Reminder: forgery / use of forged documents is forbidden in France, as per article 441-1 of the penal code. A man was recently sentenced to 4 months of jail time because he lied about his salary to rent an apartment. [0] [0]: https://www.capital.fr/economie-politique/un-locataire-conda...

Still kind of a common practice, at least to rent in Paris.

Also he only got caught because he wasn't paying the rent.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#333

Post by totony »

estaseuropano wrote: post #235
balozi wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well...what happens when company lawyers and lobbyist are the ones drafting regulations governing every human interaction with said company?

Does that sound like initiatives written by corporate lawyers?

Who do you believe this affects more. Big corporations or small/medium businesses

EDIT: to be clearer, what if this is to hinder competition? This seems like it would affect small companies disproportionally more than big ones, since small ones will not have a formalized pay system (and probably shouldn't, since value produced is way less obvious).

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#334

Post by iso1631 »

mrkstu wrote: post #134
iso1631 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is I spend time applying for a job which claims a "competitive" salary for a "network architect", and eventually find it's in the 35-45k range "depending on skills" Those companies then run off to government saying "we can't employ anyone" Fortunately more and more job listings on linked in are listing ballpark salaries so it's easy to ignore them, there's a few coming up which are reasonable salaries for…

I assume you're not in the USA? As a network architect, even non-coastal jobs are easily had for $120,000 and go up from there...

I've seen decent salaries in the UK advertised, hell I even had an interview for a 2nd line support role, fully remote, for £75k ($100k) - a small pay rise, but far less varied and thus less interesting than what I currently do, so I decided to thank them for the opportunity during the interview and put them in touch with someone I knew.

For an interesting job I could be happy with £75k. In fact in the last 20 minutes I've had contact on linkedin for a pre-sales network architect, which sounds like it could be varied and relatively interesting.

However they only list "competitive" as the salary, which I would assume means £35k ($50k)

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#335

Post by RHSeeger »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #246
Gareth321 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will paste the same reply to the other, similar comment: I'm glad you related it to my industry because I can assure you that not every L3 in Google contributes the same value to the company. They have vastly different backgrounds, education, experience, and aptitudes. Some are willing to work 80 hour weeks. Some aren't. Some are very skilled in technologies which aren't in-demand and don't currently generate a lot…

The only way I've seen this been well handled is to break out the value adding concepts to "bonuses" or add'l comp for details like: "we give people and extra $24k per year if they do oncall rotation" and we give "x% more to those who work more and contribute more" otherwise once it becomes public it turns into infighting of "we're both L3s, why do they get more?" (ignoring that one of them leaves early 2-3x a week t…

But putting a lot of that money into bonuses completely defeats the point of having published salary ranges. It's really no different than having no bonuses, but a larger range for each salary bracket. And nobody wants companies to post a salary range for a position where the low and high ends are widely disparate; it has a similar value to not posting the range at all.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#336

Post by craigie »

wpasc wrote: post #277
mhoad wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what bonus structures are for. Where you can pay extra in addition in order to incentivise better outcomes for your business.

What enshrines bonuses from being free from these disclosures and regulations? Any law about pay could be extended to bonuses and bonus disparity becomes pay disparity (unless I'm missing some enshrined, unchangeable, legal exemption/difference between bonuses and pay).

A lot of bonuses in the EU are paid based on numbers. EG. Bonus of 20% of price for every product sold.

If I sell 100 product x and you sell 10 product x in the same day we are not doing equal work.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#337

Post by ajsnigrutin »

craigie wrote: post #308
giantg2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the best way to do raise is through collective bargaining - a union.

Yup. Why do you think there is such hostility to them?

A lot of them are really corrupt. In slovenia, unions are very friendly with some political parties and unfrieldly with others, and the "other" one proposed a tax change, which would basically lower the income tax by raising the zero-eth tax bracket level (progressive taxes, 0% for first X eur, then 16% for the next bracket, 26% for the next,... X was to be raised). This would mean that someone earning minimum wage would pretty much pay zero income tax... the unions were against the proposed change, because this would mean that the government would get less money.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#338

Post by dang »

Discussed yesterday:

Pay Transparency: European Commission proposes measures - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30429182 - Feb 2022 (44 comments)

IIRC, this is a proposal. If so, then the submitted title is inaccurate. Please don't replace titles with misleading ones—that's the opposite of what the guidelines call for:

"Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#339

Post by s3r3nity »

craigie wrote: post #291
cm2012 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullets 1-3 are excellent reforms that should be the case everywhere. Bullet 4 could end up with bad consequences because there's so many ways to fudge the data. And justification is in the eye of the beholder. For instance, in digital marketing, direct response advertising roles tend to be higher paid than marketing roles without strict KPIs (brand, organic social, etc.) Direct response advertising, for whatever rea…

Can this law distinguish between a direct response marketer and a brand marketer Yes that's not equal work. You have to compare two brand marketers.

> Yes that's not equal work. You have to compare two brand marketers.

The devil's in the details here though, as the debate can come under work of "equal value."

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#340

Post by ajsnigrutin »

unnouinceput wrote: post #138
BurningFrog wrote: post #60

I look forward to when every human interaction is finally regulated in law, and we're still not happy.

And that's a good thing, no? I mean if we were happy with current state of things we'd still be living in caves. Bickering and not being happy is what drives progress forward. You want it better than current state of affairs, for you/your kids and that makes the human brain jump from riding on horseback to riding in a Tesla in roughly 200 hundred years.

We can still be happy with the current state regarding some things, and not happy with the state of other things.
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