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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#331

Post by leereeves »

simonh wrote: post #317
leereeves wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the vaccine supposed to provide that protection from (catching Covid from) them?

Unvaccinated people are a threat to the public on many grounds. Many of these points are already all over this discussion here, but you’re asking so here they are. Unvaccinated people with covid on average have the infection for longer and have higher viral loads, so they are more likely to spread the virus to others than vaccinated people are. They are much more likely to need hospitalisation, putting a burden on th…

I haven't seen data for Canada, but in the US, at no time in the past two years have more than 80% of ICU beds been occupied. At no time have more than 25% of ICU beds been occupied by Covid patients. And the impact of Covid on overall inpatient hospitalization has been negligible. [1]

Are you sure Trudeau isn't gaslighting you into believing the problems with Canadian healthcare are due to the unvaccinated, and not due to a failing health care system whose problems pre-date Covid?

In Why Ontario hospitals are full to bursting, despite few COVID-19 patients the CBC reported:

> The data suggests many hospitals have returned to the overcrowding levels seen before the pandemic, when CBC News revealed hospitals filled beyond capacity nearly every single day, with patients housed in hallways, conference rooms and cafeterias not as exceptional cases, but as a matter of routine.[2]

1: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/hospitalization-7-day-trend

2: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-hospital-occu...

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#332

Post by vidarh »

iqanq wrote: post #238
ukj wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost as if reducing mortality/hospitalization is an irrelevant metric to you. Almost as if an abstract social construct as “rights” is more important to you than actual health.

Yes, personal freedom is to me infinitely more important than the health of others.

And our personal freedoms are worth enough to us to justify limiting our exposure to people like you. You have no right to impose yourself on us.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#333

Post by throw0101a »

criticaltinker wrote: post #313
LaunchAway1 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point to make and defendable but these declarations mentioned in another comment, I will assume to be true, coming from Trudeau, Canada's president: “They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" I have taken both shots, and will take the third but these declaration…

Yes and this type of doublespeak is coming from the top down in many countries. It’s alarming because “they don’t believe in science” has become a divisive weapon that hand waves away all scientific nuance. The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Also, previous infection confers protection that is at least as…

> The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses.

Of course they need a vaccine. Just because you don't have symptoms does not mean (a) that you're not carrying it, and (b) can't infect someone who may not be as healthy as you.

Further it's difficult to predict ahead of time how an individual will react to being infected. A 20-year-old takes up an ICU bed just as effectively as a 40- or 60-year-old: they're less likely, but it can still happen. Which is why people in higher risk profiles get priority. But just because certain folks may get things first doesn't mean other shouldn't later.

COVID can also mutate just as well in a young person as an older person.

> But using economic and financial engineering to force everyone to get vaccinated? There is no scientific evidence supporting that decision, and the second and third order consequences are completely unstudied.

The unvaccinated make up the vast majority of hospital and ICU admissions. And by "majority" we're talking about 90-100% in many places. "Unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU with COVID-19, Ontario data shows":

* https://globalnews.ca/news/8230051/covid-vaccine-hospitaliza...

And then if someone who is vaccinated perhaps has a serious (car) accident or heart attack and there are no ICU beds for them.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#334

Post by [deleted] »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #86
guidovranken wrote: post #58

In other festive COVID news from Canada: >Canada's Justin Trudeau on the unvaccinated: >“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" https://twitter.com/KevinBardosh/status/1476838517007257600 My patience with COVID cultists is starting to run quite thin.

There is no science if doubts aren’t allowed.

[deleted]

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#335

Post by scott_w »

yostrovs wrote: post #218
scott_w wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t spread HIV just by sitting next to someone. Your analogy also doesn’t hold at all because countries DO punish people for knowingly infecting others with HIV.

You can spread HIV by having sex with someone and not using a condom. You might not even know you have HIV, so using a condom is essential in any case.

You can spread Covid to an entire roomful of people just by sitting in it. The two things aren’t even remotely comparable. To suggest otherwise is to repeat the homophobic prejudices of the original HIV pandemic.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#336

Post by middleclick »

peteradio wrote: post #330
middleclick wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are the one who made the claim that age is relevant to this when it is not as if the ICUs are full, it impacts everyone. So maybe find the source and share it here since you are the one who made the argument? Burden of proof is on you, not me.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#337

Post by scott_w »

peteradio wrote: post #234
scott_w wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't stop spreading and catching it Not true, they do reduce infection and spread. > That said, if the government takes away benefits, then it should give back all the taxes withheld on one's salary before it does that. That’s not how government, taxes or being part of civil society works at all. > personally I don't see any other solution to the pandemic, other than everybody/most people gaining some kind of…

> vaccine gives stronger protection Maybe if youre boosted and its been 14 days but not greater than 45 days. But citation needed anyway. Natural immunity was not totally bypassed. South Africa kicked Omicron's ass with regard to case fatality rate.

Citation? I literally just watched the deputy chief medical officer for England (Van Tam) explain how infection and the vaccines work on BBC iPlayer last night.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#338

Post by throw0101a »

b3nji wrote: post #2

I don't understand, if the vaccines work then why the issue? However the vaccines don't stop you catching or spreading the virus, so why is this banning of the unvaccinated a thing? Very odd.

> I don't understand, if the vaccines work then why the issue?

Vaccines work the same way car seat belts and airbags do: they improve the/your odds. They make you much less likely to be infected, and because less likely to be infected, less likely to pass it on.

> If seatbelt-wearers outnumber non-wearers by four to one, but account for roughly the same number of deaths, it suggests seatbelt-wearers are about one-fourth as likely to die in an accident as non-wearers. That shocking statistic turns out to be not so shocking as all that.

* https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-is-the-case-...

* https://archive.fo/ayjkf (for paywall)

"Unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU with COVID-19, Ontario data shows"

* https://globalnews.ca/news/8230051/covid-vaccine-hospitaliza...

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#340

Post by dazilcher »

ukj wrote: post #182
iqanq wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking the current COVID vaccines won't end any pandemics, either.

Do you have a better strategy, or are you just practicing fallacies? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

"We must do something. This is something."
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