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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#331

Post by WalterBright »

throwawaygh wrote: post #64
WalterBright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle crime statistics are misleading. It's been reported many times that since the police no longer even show up for shoplifting crimes, business owners no longer bother to report it. Nobody knows what the crime rate actually is as a result. But the accountants at the retail stores know, and they're raising prices, installing armored doors, or simply leaving the city. The local bank branch I patronize now sports a…

> The local bank branch I patronize now sports an armed guard wearing body armor standing outside the door. It's only a block from the police station. Pretty sad. Well that's certainly a vote of confidence for the professionalism and effectiveness for the police.

If you want more indications, on the Seattle side the bank branches have heavy armored glass completely separating them from customers. On the eastside, no such glass. These are branches of the same bank.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#332

Post by CodeGlitch »

deeg wrote: post #44
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Perhaps because the police are changing their tactics (for the worse) to reduce any possible repeat of George Floyd's killing?

Here in the UK, "stop and search" was massively reduced because it was seen as racist. The result has been a marked increase in knife and drug related crimes.

Of course it is the poor and minorities who suffer from these progressive policies.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#333

Post by rbanffy »

monocasa wrote: post #142
nostrademons wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also to police forces closing ranks around their own misbehaving officers, such that it's not possible to effect change within the system short of tearing down the whole system and replacing it with something else. I think that 2020s protests might've gone very differently if, after the previous 18 complaints against Chauvin for racially-motivated excessive use of force, his department had said "Yes, this is a proble…

Which is ironically the moral of the bad apples aphorism: a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

It seems the bunch is made almost exclusively of bad apples right now.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#334

Post by rbanffy »

kragen wrote: post #269
rbanffy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to know. They just assume and kill everyone before they have a chance to defend themselves. From their point of view, it's simple and neat. Remember it's always them surprising their victims, not the other way around.

Dunno, when I was growing up, around 01990, there was a bank robbery in my town where one of the bank customers shot the robbers dead. Bank robbery is already a pretty bad career choice but it gets worse in a hurry when mass-murdering the customers is a prerequisite.

A bank robbery is a different game, with different rules. It’s supposed to be high-risk/high-return as opposed to street mugging or burglary.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#335

Post by Corrado »

reanimus wrote: post #42
fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

I dunno man, both me and my mom have been mugged before and the police didn't help. Same with when my car was broken into and someone tried to break my front door lock. People make this argument all the time but I fail to see how the police have helped any time I've experienced any actual crime, not to mention so many others. That's not even getting into the politics of who can call the police and how the police reac…

Yeah, I personally know people who were mugged at gunpoint and the police did nothing. The assailant is on social media and the victims provided the police with their account names. Nothing was done.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#336

Post by rbanffy »

Trias11 wrote: post #247
rbanffy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point being that, if they suspect you have weapons, their lives are worth more to them than yours and your family's and they'll not think twice before making that choice before you make yours. If they enter your house when your family is in, they are prepared for it. You are not. Remember, it's a violent criminal we are talking about. Were it not a violent criminal, they'd stalk your house and wait for it to be em…

"if they suspect you have weapons..." - they (bad guys) will move out into cities or jurisdictions where citizens are unable to protect themselves. Armed citizens are not worth fooling with.

If everyone does as you propose, there will be no easy neighborhood.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#337

Post by mclightning »

rafale wrote: post #104

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can. But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Unpo…

I think no sane person would deny that, but culture is shaped by what you have available; monetarily, accessibility, safety and the list goes on.

A lot of these factors are dictated by wealth individually and wealth communally as a city.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#338

Post by netizen-936824 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #329
netizen-936824 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been religious for thousands of years, it's easy for humans to believe things without evidence when it makes them feel better

And you think we need a criminal justice system is one of those things?

In its current form, yes absolutely. We do not need a "justice" system focused purely on retribution and punishment, there isn't really evidence that retribution and punishment are effective

The Nordic countries have a better system of rehabilitation

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#340

Post by sleepysysadmin »

There's an interesting book I read not long ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Policing

For the most part I didn't learn anything new. Though didn't necessarily agree with everything.

If you were to list out every task the police do and don't do.

Eliminate any and all laws that the police never enforce.

Fix any law which is disproportionately applied. For example, less than 1% of traffic accidents are because of speeding. Yet police enforce speeding laws extensively doing huge damage to society. On top of that, so many of the applications are intentionally meant to be antagonistic toward society. Speeding laws are meant to be set where 80% of society does not break the law. That's not at all how it is. It's set such that 100% of society is breaking the law. With intention of revenue generation.

It's not just speeding. It's all the petty laws meant to generate revenue. Does your bike have a bell? These laws change police from law enforcement to antagonistic toward society. This is the fundamental problem. The police are no longer there to help you, they are there to be against you. Anything you say will be used AGAINST you in the court of law. Anything you say will NEVER BE USED FOR you in the court of law. The police are the enemy, this is intentional design and no politician ever will consider fixing this problem.

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