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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#331

Post by mrguyorama »

everyoneloves84 wrote: post #236
Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced to take the medicine. They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. If they refused to take the vaccine, that is their choice, period. They cannot claimed they are being forced because they are given an choice in the first place. They are given a free will with their decision. Thousands of T…

> They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. Interesting line of argument. So, if my boss says: "have sex with me or lose your job", is that freedom of choice or blackmail?

That's only disallowed because of the sex angle. If your boss tells you "come to this work sponsored luncheon for a person you hate or be fired", that's not blackmail and is perfectly allowed.

Don't pollute comparisons with situations that have other considerations

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#332

Post by peter422 »

orang2tang wrote: post #254
peter422 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If virologists weren't talking about it, how did you learn about it? Do you know enough about virology (or immunology as this would be) that I should listen to you over them? If the vaccines don't work, why do people in the real world die much, much less often from covid once they are vaccinated? If you are so sure an immune-evading variant will emerge, why hasn’t one? (There is no evidence at all that omicron evades…

You shouldn't listen and believe anyone solely on the basis of their person. Many "scientists" or "experts" that you might believe in have financial ties and liabilities / political liabilities that prevent them from utilizing their expertise to full capacity. The world, money, and politics naturally suppress truth. The government told you the vaccines would stop the spread, limit deaths, and bring us back to "normal…

And the people peddling misinformation have no financial benefit? They don’t want you to subscribe to their patreon or their newsletter? Watch their YouTube videos?

Also the reason Pfizer or other people pay for studies that may disprove their drugs is because they actually don’t know whether the drugs work or not! They are paying to find out. Studies fail all the time. You’ve picked one of the most successful studies and treatments of all time to show the system is rigged. Look at all the ones that didn’t work. Why doesn’t Merck, the largest pharma company, have a vaccine? If it’s so easy to fabricate the data, why didn’t they? Why didn’t their virologists lie? Is Merck the only honest pharma company?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#333

Post by peteradio »

_Understated_ wrote: post #273
lpcvoid wrote: post #237

Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc? Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science?

> Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. I don't do personal attacks but in your case I'll make an exception: you are a fucking psychopath if you think it's ok to tell people to get a jag for something that is killing literally no one right now! We're at around 100 deaths per day right now in the UK [0] and those stats don't actually tell you if they died FROM covid or merely had covid 28 days earlier when…

I agree with most of what you've said but I'd hesitate to call him a psychopath. Give them the benefit of the doubt, they could be a moron.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#334

Post by mikebonnell »

dang wrote: post #235
mikebonnell wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the executive branch is functioning again after 4 years of idiocy.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You are correct and thanks for the reminder.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#335

Post by dgfitz »

beerandt wrote: post #250
zamadatix wrote: post #2

Original title is much more accurate "Courts block two Biden administration COVID vaccine mandates", the edited one here "Courts block Covid vaccine mandates for healthcare workers nationwide" implies something much larger in scope.

The mandates blocked are for healthcare workers nationwide, it's factually correct.

Op didn’t disagree with you. You should re-read the comment they made. Do you disagree with the Op?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#336

Post by dgfitz »

olliej wrote: post #313
refurb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fully vaccinated but I won’t force anyone else.

People aren’t being forced to get vaccinated.

To get it out of the way, I’m fully vaxxed and I don’t think it should be mandated.

No people aren’t being rounded up and stuck with needles against their will. Getting fired from a job is a big deal. Not being able to pay bills or buy food or care for a family, no health insurance, that’s a big deal. Surely you’re bright enough to distinguish between “forced full stop” or “forced and in extremely dire financial straits.”

What if I told you there was a new federal mandate that requires you to get a tattoo of my choosing on your forehead. If you don’t, you lose your job.

Doesn’t seem reasonable.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#337

Post by kiba »

JavaBatman wrote: post #114
kiba wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your freedom to control over one's body ends when it comes to the safety and health of other people's bodies. That's why herd immunity is a thing.

There is no right to not receive another's germs. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, then the flu vaccine would be mandated. But it's not. So if you say that Covid is different, then what is your threshold or cut-off for when a medical procedure should be mandated?

There is no right to not receive another's germs. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, then the flu vaccine would be mandated. But it's not. So if you say that Covid is different, then what is your threshold or cut-off for when a medical procedure should be mandated?

Why not? if the cost & benefit ratio is worth it, maybe we should. The same for any other diseases you can think of. If the answer is yes, then there are no reason for any of us to refuse unless we have good excuses.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#338

Post by bingohbangoh »

javagram wrote: post #259
bingohbangoh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then CMS or OSHA. My point still stands. Vaccine enforcement and mandates was not even considered as under their purview. It's quite hair-splitting to say "there's nothing that says they _can't start enforcing vaccine mandates_."

“Vaccine enforcement and mandates was not even considered as under their purview.” Even if the law as written allowed it? Since the OSHA act and Social security acts that give OSHA and CMS regulatory authority passed, the USA has never faced a deadly virus pandemic that could be combated with a vaccine. If Congress specifically wrote the law to allow flexibility for new situations it doesn’t make sense to me to argue…

Right, that's my point -- this is unprecedented and thus falls under "Congress needs to allow these agencies to do this" _not_ "these agencies can do this by default."

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#339

Post by tfehring »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #220
yissp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had an abortion doesn't affect your ability to safely do your job. Being unvaccinated does.

How about if it's the 1960s, and you're a flight attendant, and "being sexy" is semi-officially part of your job. And your job is requiring you to get an abortion (which is still illegal in the US, and so you're going to have to go to Sweden to get it). And if you won't, well, nobody's making you - you can get a different job. This is, as far as I can see, the most directly analogous situation. Those who support vacc…

Pregnancy was explicitly added as a protected characteristic under the Civil Rights Act in 1978. Government has a bona fide interest in preventing conduct that could discourage people from becoming pregnant. It has no interest in encouraging people to remain unvaccinated against deadly communicable diseases, and in fact it has an interest in exactly the opposite of that. Accordingly, unvaccinated people aren’t a protected class, nor should they be.

Also, this is a minor point but illegal abortions are many orders of magnitude more risky than COVID vaccines.

I strongly oppose broad-reaching government-imposed vaccine mandates, but I strongly support a vaccine mandate for healthcare workers specifically. The US government has already taken on the responsibility for setting employment eligibility standards for healthcare workers, and it makes sense for being vaccinated to be one of those criteria.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#340

Post by tastyfreeze »

cmh89 wrote: post #318
tastyfreeze wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being told to wear clothes or get fired does not require that I get an injection that can cause harm to me. These two things are not equal.

I was just establishing that you don't have a philosophical problem with an Authority using coercion to achieve a goal. Vaccines are safe and effective so I wont get into what conspiracy theories you believe about the COVID-19 vaccine. Most importantly, vaccines have been mandated by the government in different settings for years. I'm sure if you went to college at a public school, you had to certain vaccines. I know…

In general I will rebel against any authority that claims to know what is better for me than I do. Nobody is my master. That is what our Constitution protects. My individual right to do whatever the hell I want to as long as it doesn't inhibit other people from doing the same. That doesn't mean I would not comply just for the sake of it. If something is requested of me I will weigh the risks and benefits for myself and my family and make a decision that is best for me.

Despite what the media and elected/appointed officials are telling you the SARS-CoV2 vaccine is not 100% safe[1] or effective[2]. The authority to mandate vaccines resides with states not the federal government. The SCOTUS has upheld this authority in Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The federal government has absolutely zero authority to mandate vaccination in any capacity.

Yes, I did get vaccinations that were mandated by my state to attend public school. All of them were for diseases that are much more destructive and deadly than SARS-CoV2. In my case the vaccines required by my state were diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

[2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

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