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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#331

Post by dragonshed »

enumjorge wrote: post #322
sholladay wrote: post #315

Rich Harris has done a lot of great work. Until esbuild came along, Rollup was the only sane JS bundler for those of us who can’t stand Webpack. Svelte has some interesting concepts, albeit I am planning to stay with React. His code is always interesting to read. Then there’s Vercel. I was a big advocate for them years ago, back when they were Zeit. I used them in production at multiple companies and I contributed to…

Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but Richard Harris did not create esbuild. Evan Wallace, co-founder of Figma, is the person behind it.

Rich created rollup :)

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#332

Post by beeandapenguin »

enumjorge wrote: post #322
sholladay wrote: post #315

Rich Harris has done a lot of great work. Until esbuild came along, Rollup was the only sane JS bundler for those of us who can’t stand Webpack. Svelte has some interesting concepts, albeit I am planning to stay with React. His code is always interesting to read. Then there’s Vercel. I was a big advocate for them years ago, back when they were Zeit. I used them in production at multiple companies and I contributed to…

Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but Richard Harris did not create esbuild. Evan Wallace, co-founder of Figma, is the person behind it.

You are misreading. He's saying that rollup[1] was the only other option for bundling static assets besides webpack until esbuild was created. Rollup was created by Rich.

- [1]: https://rollupjs.org/guide/en/

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#333

Post by miohtama »

cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

Because if we do not keep constantly learning and get better, we would be stuck writing COBOL and BASIC.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#334

Post by ratww »

d23 wrote: post #186
cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

As a backend guy who moved away from frontend long ago for these very reasons, I have to ask: why are people downvoting this? Is it wrong? I'm genuinely asking, because from a bystander's point of view, it certainly seems like the pattern of the Framework Du Jour hasn't really slowed down much in the frontend community.

It is wrong because it has slowed down to a crawl compared to what we had from 2010-2014.

Most companies have settled on either React or Vue, which are extremely similar. Angular is used in some niches, almost always because teams already knew it.

Those three are responsible for almost 99% of the frontend positions you'll see.

Svelte is getting popular but so far it's still niche. It's more of an inspiration for others, but also a contender. And really, what's so wrong about having more options and more competition? Even if you want to stop learning new things, there'll be no shortage of job vacancies for the three frameworks above.

Also, since you're a backend dev, there are much more backend languages in use today than frontend frameworks, to give an example. And it's not hard to find companies using more than one.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#335

Post by combyn8tor »

dceddia wrote: post #65
gnrlst wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your app is MacOS only at the moment. Are you re-writing it in Electron or what? Very curious

Yeah, rewriting it with Electron + Svelte + a Rust backend for the heavy lifting. I looked at alternatives to Electron because I wanted to avoid the bloat, but nothing felt like the right fit. Tauri ( https://tauri.studio/ ) is the most exciting, but I couldn't find a good way to get raw video frames into the UI without a bunch of expensive copies or serialization. I also looked at native toolkits like Qt (I've worke…

Interested to hear if you considered compiling Rust to WASM and what your thoughts were?

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#336

Post by hunterb123 »

BackBlast wrote: post #313
hunterb123 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you need to really leverage the specific platforms, it’s hard to do that. Not my experience. I have a production app for web, ios, and android, with desktop platforms coming. You can swap out anything per platform and write any extension for any native functionality you don't have, but the std and community extensions are plentiful. RN sucks for "web pages", great for apps. In fact sometimes I embed web page…

My experience with the tool chain was abysmal. It's been almost 3 years away now for me, so I don't know the current state of things. I hope it has improved. But every update was a large effort in bringing the app back into compliance with the new changes. The debugging platform used a different interpreter than in app resulting in things that worked in the debugger but not in production. Odd bugs at boundary layers…

> The debugging platform used a different interpreter than in app

What discrepancies did you notice? It depends on the target platform which JS engine is used. Sometimes the debugging platform shares the same engine.

> Odd bugs at boundary layers nobody could (easily) decipher.

I'm not sure I understand, could you provide an example?

> The inability to even catch or do anything with some crashes.

Strange, you're able to catch and debug both JS and native crashes currently. I'm not aware of a past limitation but I could be wrong.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#337

Post by ratww »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #295
mikewhy wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frontend developers like to change frameworks every week it seems like This sentiment is so old and played out.

Is it false though? If it’s true, then maybe we need to look at why it’s true. It’s not just front end developers though. I think other domains and their frameworks went through the same thing. This is just the time for front end.

It is false. Companies that adopt a certain framework tend to stick with it, and it's verifiable from seeing job offers.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#338

Post by intrasight »

cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

They are all just trying to replicate XSLT - but by mixing imperative with declarative syntaxes.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#339

Post by cphoover »

miohtama wrote: post #333
cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

Because if we do not keep constantly learning and get better, we would be stuck writing COBOL and BASIC.

haha fair enough!

But I think, I'd rather learn an entirely new technology or language instead of every year having to learn a JS Frankenstein language!

I kind of regret posting my OP now... as its turned into a bit of a flame war. It was not my intent.

And I applaud people try and build anything new. I'm just ranting a bit about how it feels like UI development has a new framework/language/ecosystem every year or that is touted as the next big thing to supersede the rest! But then ends up reinventing much of the same constructs only with subtly different syntaxes.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#340

Post by timeon »

Tarks wrote: post #262
cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

Agreed, I thought we were past this with the 4th generation of these frameworks, this is like knockoutjs all over again. The moment the penny dropped for me was when I read something like this about React: "We realised that inventing our own Yet Another Binding Language that was less expressive than javascript was harder and worse than doing the work to put the relatively simple HTML constructs into Javascript"

And then you have ended up with shadow DOM.
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