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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

ia.acs.org.au

331–340 of 437 posts

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to quote this bit for those too lazy to follow the link: Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

This reminds me of Hannah Arendt's criticism of the Boers - which was sometimes taken out of context. She was just pointing out they had become a tribe of bush-wandering savages living off, but not improving the land, themselves. They had no incentive to improve the land; labor was cheap and their own lives were cheap, and they still have made nothing of the country. When I lived in Australia I was really surprised,…

The treatment of aboriginal people in the NT is a national disgrace, and Sydney is run by moralising religious fundies.

That being said, when I moved to the bay area I was horrified by how rickety US scaffolding was, surprised every government building (including schools!) had visible armed security and metal detectors, and thought it was ridiculous that shops had signs saying "frozen burritos bought with EBT can't be microwaved" (because that would make it fast food instead of groceries). Culture shock can be like that. You can take a lot for granted about your native culture.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#332
post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

[deleted]

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#333
post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

"Everyone is so rich that nobody cares about politics anymore and they all just go to the beach instead" sounds like a wonderful end-goal for which all countries should strive.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd point out the extreme irony of this comment, but I suspect it'll fall on deaf ears.

Nah go on

I think the disconnect tends to be the assumption that "moralizing" is bad, thus if one is justified in their proposal, they aren't moralizing. That isn't the case. To be moralize, you just need to be making an argument on moral grounds, repeatedly.

The abolition (of slavery) movement in the 19th century was a moralizing one. And they were very right!

The irony is when one proclaims not to be moralizing in their argument, but are indeed making a moral argument, insistently, including the insistence they aren't moralizing.

The challenge is that to anyone who doesn't want to hear the message, having something be repeated continuously is frustratingly annoying. And it sure doesn't help any overall movement when specific extremes of that movement, or cherry-picked instances of that movement can be highlighted as representing the whole thing. This is certainly factor in the increasing polarization of society, for if the other-side is full of moralizing assholes, why should I bother listening to them? Especially if they are just going to keep repeating their same tired BS? This can apply to both sides of some many contemporary debates - independent of the merit of either side!

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#335
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget they disarmed the people. If some people ever start to care they wont have the boomstick power. They maybe be upside down but authoritarian regimes work the same, secure the monopoly on force by removing arms is a key step for any authoritarian gov.

Guns in the hands of the Australians who want guns in their hands is an outcome that's about a thousand times worse than a "disarmed people". Also, anyone think that a US civilian militia has more than a snowball's chance in hell against any committed government-deployed force? Tell 'im 'e's dreamin'

The US civilian militias that currently exist in a time of domestic peace are filled with angry people from the margins of society. The ones that would form from the veterans of decades of foreign wars in a time of domestic conflict might be a lot different.

Remember that bin Laden fought off the Soviets using an MBA, an inherited construction company, and billions of dollars of foreign funding. Militias don't exist in isolation from the world.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government needs to make voting for federal elections compulsory in order to get people to take a stance / have an opinion (yes, you will get a fine if you don’t vote!) This seems like such a bad idea. Ideally, the democratic process taps ‘the wisdom of crowds’ and allows a society to make reasonable decisions. But all human beings are not capable of contributing to good decision making. Roughly the 15% of peop…

I'm Australian. Respectfully, you're totally wrong. Government should be for everyone. Parties should have a platform that is for a majority. For the most part, Australia has populist fairly centrist small c conservative governments. It's getting bad at the moment here mostly because the current governing party is past due for it's turn on the opposition benches. And it also seems that everyone's having a go at being…

It is not clear from your comment if you really believe the village idiot should vote; that is 15% of the population or even more, in some cases. Having the right to vote ... still in doubt, but expecting their participation to decision making - hell no. It is just about realism and competence, when you go to a doctor's office for a consultation you ask for the competent doctor to respond or you ask everyone in the building to vote your diagnostic? A significant part of the population is not competent enough to vote.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#338
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a weird slacker version of the resource curse.

Yes - but also Arendt's concept of the colonist as the superfluous man, unnecessary and having no accommodation in European society, basically getting offloaded for resource extraction to remote parts of the world and falling into tribalism and illiterate degradation. Happy thought there.

I've seen the opinion that most of the world imagines Australians all descended from criminals, while in fact an influential portion was descended from wardens. Bit of a parallel there I imagine.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#339
post #333
post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

"Everyone is so rich that nobody cares about politics anymore and they all just go to the beach instead" sounds like a wonderful end-goal for which all countries should strive.

This was my immediate thought as well. I'm not sure why I should think it's a bad thing that most of the population doesn't need to concern themselves with the vicissitudes of the political landscape.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#340
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err... we're literally in a pandemic, where people getting together in large numbers makes things worse. When we're not in pandemic conditions, people are quite welcome to gather and protest whatever the heck they want.

I go to a large gathering every week. It’s called the supermarket. In light of that, it seems silly to suspend civil rights.

Maybe the supermarkets here are different?

We all keep good spacing (1.5m) between each other, wear face masks, etc.

Very, very different to the protests apparently, judging by the photos in the newspapers.

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