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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

ia.acs.org.au

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Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#151

Post by refurb »

elevenoh wrote: post #7

>“[These laws] represent, in my view, significant expansions of the existing powers of law enforcement agencies away from a traditional focus on investigation and the collection of admissible evidence of specific offenses to disruption, to attack, to take-over, to take-down,” Dr Mann said. Yikes. This is like government being infested by cancel culture (attack w/ no evidence needed, pile on & take down). What phenome…

I might be entirely wrong, but I wonder if it’s shared culture with other SE Asian countries?

Having spend time in SE Asia, I’ve found the “collective mindset” to be inaccurate. People there are just as likely to screw over their fellow man as any other country.

What’s different is the deference to authority. When the govt cracks down, people don’t really complain or push back. They accept it much more readily. Not sure if it’s the belief that leaders need an “iron will” or what, but it’s very different than North America or Europe where protesting the govt is almost expected.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#152

Post by noduerme »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #91
BFLpL0QNek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was written in 1964 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country , it still rings true today.

Have to quote this bit for those too lazy to follow the link: Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

This reminds me of Hannah Arendt's criticism of the Boers - which was sometimes taken out of context. She was just pointing out they had become a tribe of bush-wandering savages living off, but not improving the land, themselves. They had no incentive to improve the land; labor was cheap and their own lives were cheap, and they still have made nothing of the country.

When I lived in Australia I was really surprised, because I expected to find a country much more individualistic and hardy than the soft United States. All those Crocodile Dundee movies, I guess. I had the luck of moving there with a partner who was half-Filipina, and wow was there a lot of anti-Asian racism right off the bat. But that wouldn't have been such a big deal. What really struck me were the micro-restrictions on everything.

I think local councils have a lot to do with this; in the Commonwealth model they seem to have totally arbitrary and uncontrolled power. If you squeal your wheels, they'll take your car and crush it. At least that's what I heard. If you work on roofs you have to spend an hour gearing up to have harnesses. I mean. I thought this was a frontier society, but it's not. Cameras everywhere and ...well, I lived in King's Cross, Sydney for a bit, but I heard they basically shut that down by fiat from end to end.

And the NT. Just a word about that. We pulled up to a shop in the bush outside Tenant Creek and there were approximately 40 aboriginal ladies standing outside a closed window at 9am. We walked past this line, straight inside, and bought a couple cases of beer. Asked why they were all waiting there. "Waitin for the welfare window," said the store owner. Never been to the white side of a segregation window before, but that was something to see in a first world country.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#153

Post by ajsnigrutin »

antisol wrote: post #14

you know what's hilarious? An article talking about surveillance states that immediately pops up a request for a bunch of personal information.

yep... I've never been on that site, never even seen an article there, and the first one I want to see, they cover up with a popup, asking me to subscribe...

I have no idea whose idea this is, and how many people actually subscribe on the first visit, but there must be some pointy haired boss somewhere involved.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#154

Post by throwaway0a5e »

oxymoran wrote: post #147
L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

That sounds exactly like the US.

The Boston-DC corridor (sans a few impoverished dots) and urban/wealthy West coast maybe. Doesn't really fit for the southeast, middle America and the mountain west.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#155

Post by pibechorro »

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

Public education would not have helped. If its anything like the dumbed down, one size fits all, factory worker optimized Prussian system in much of the west, it reinforces a lack of critical thinking, independence and holding authorit6 accountable.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#156

Post by 1337shadow »

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

I like reading comments like this, it's very typical of people who think "they are aware and know while others are ignorant", from one hand it's so moralist and condescending but from where people are standing it's just completely lunar, it's so Don Quichotte it's really a breath of fresh air!

Reality is: people want more security, that's part of their expectations from paying taxes, mass surveillance offers just that.

They want to choose a doctor instead of choosing their treatment, unlike you, they don't fantasize on being aware of every aspect of all politics, going to vote every day on every amendment, they just want professionals to do their job just like they do theirs, they accept that these can make mistakes, or not do exactly what they would have because yes, they have their job and their families - which, you know, is two jobs already - to take care of rather than "they prefer to spend their days at the beach".

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#157

Post by throwaway0a5e »

alvah wrote: post #150
trissylegs wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia's economy is pretty dependent on Coal, Aluminum and Gas. Two of these a hopefully going away soon but the Government is so In bed with mining and they throw more money at elections than every other sector put together that nothing will done about it until it collapses.

Do you understand what you're actually wishing for when you cheer on the destruction of a large percentage of the economy? What comes after will not be so comfortable.

The thing that gets me is not when people advocate for economically shooting themselves in the foot on principal, it's fine to have principals and stick to them even when it hurts you. What does infuriates me is that most of these people then apply a double standard for the other tribe and call them stupid when they advocate for sticking to their principals even when it hurts them.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#158

Post by noduerme »

api wrote: post #107
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to quote this bit for those too lazy to follow the link: Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

Sounds like a weird slacker version of the resource curse.

Yes - but also Arendt's concept of the colonist as the superfluous man, unnecessary and having no accommodation in European society, basically getting offloaded for resource extraction to remote parts of the world and falling into tribalism and illiterate degradation. Happy thought there.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#159

Post by hestefisk »

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

I think this is nicely said. I grew up in a Western European country where I was used to most people caring about big societal issues such as health, environment, civil rights and privacy. In most European countries there is real competition between newspapers and an, at least in some places, a tradition of democratic participation. Meanwhile, in Australia, the “free press” is effectively owned by Rupert Murdoch, the government needs to make voting for federal elections compulsory in order to get people to take a stance / have an opinion (yes, you will get a fine if you don’t vote!), and our leading politicians still debate whether climate change is real or not. What matters to the average John / Jane is not public health, wars, civil rights, or media diversity but whether you get to watch the “footy” on Wednesday nights. I say this as a European who has resettled in Australia and become a citizen. The country has welcomed me and given me a good life style, but how I wish sometimes Australia would wake up to the things that really matter.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#160

Post by audiometry »

noduerme wrote: post #152
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to quote this bit for those too lazy to follow the link: Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

This reminds me of Hannah Arendt's criticism of the Boers - which was sometimes taken out of context. She was just pointing out they had become a tribe of bush-wandering savages living off, but not improving the land, themselves. They had no incentive to improve the land; labor was cheap and their own lives were cheap, and they still have made nothing of the country. When I lived in Australia I was really surprised,…

Wow, really suprised to see someone else speaking my mind. I went to Australia, from the US, with the perception that Australia was wild country where people were free and independent. Sort of like if I lived in rural Arizona or Idaho or something.

But what I found was an ultra-tedious nitpicky rules and control mindset. Really turned me off.

Just surprised to see someone else say similar.

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