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Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

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Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#331

Post by tephra »

bsd44 wrote: post #300

I switched to Opera because Firefox forces invasive updates that require a forced restart. For someone who likes to keep a web browser running for a long time and put their laptop to sleep rather than shutdown, that is not acceptable. I use Linux so I could get around that by excluding the package from updates but I don't want to run an outdated web browser that might have security vulnerabilities. I raised this a fe…

I'm not on desktop ow and can check later. But I'm pretty sure you can disable auto updates on the about:config page.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#332

Post by zamadatix »

codesections wrote: post #319
svl wrote: post #271

I'd say ~30M, rather than 50M. They explicitly call out the summer holidays effect above the first graph: "Generally, MAU fluctuates over the course of a year, dropping in the summer months and during holidays." So comparing the peak of Jan 2019 to the low of Jul 2021 isn't giving a good idea of the total loss. Jan 28 2019: 253.9M Jan 27 2020: 229.5M Feb 01 2021: 219.7M Jul 22 2019: 224.2M Jul 20 2020: 214.1M Jul 19…

> They explicitly call out the summer [and winter] holidays effect above the first graph Given that this is a measure of "Desktop clients active in the past 28 days", that means that there are people tech-savy enough to be regular users of Firefox on a desktop – but who go an entire month without using Firefox because it's Christmas. And enough of those people to show up on this graph. That blows my mind a bit. I don…

Remember FF has been bundled in installers and OEMs have preinstalled it. Out of 200,000,000 users there are probably more users that simply aren't tech-savvy enough to have changed to a different browser than are still on it because they are tech-savvy.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#333

Post by Sayrus »

andai wrote: post #264
bigyikes wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome uses V8, which is the same JS engine that Node is built on top of. As the name implies, it’s sort of wicked fast. IIRC Firefox uses their own engine called Spider Monkey. I don’t know of anything outside of Mozilla which uses it. I have a hard time imagining it being faster than V8, but I actually have no idea — will need to go look at some benchmarks.

There used to be a big difference (in JS engine speed) but it's small recently. Where there is still a difference is in the UI code. Not necessarily operations being slower in Ff, but ordered in such a way to appear slower. For example, when you press ctrl+n, chrome instantly creates a new window, then spends the next second or so (depending how old your computer is) painting the UI. On Firefox though it seems like n…

I've been experiencing delays too but only on the first request. This was due to uBlock Origin initializing. On mobile, this load time adds up really fast as it takes around 5 to 10 seconds for uBlock to load. In the mean time, requests are configured to be delayed. The aggressive Android memory cleaner doesn't help as anytime you close your browser, it reloads again.

All this to say, you might have an add-on delaying network requests to match them against a blacklist, save metadata or whatever the add-on is supposed to be doing.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#334

Post by wusher »

qersist3nce wrote: post #6

In other news: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplat... https://www.ghacks.net/2021/03/14/mozilla-plans-to-remove-th... https://www.ghacks.net/2020/04/08/how-to-restore-the-old-fir...

That about sums up why I switched from Firefox to brave.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#335

Post by eingaeKaiy8ujie »

bsd44 wrote: post #300

I switched to Opera because Firefox forces invasive updates that require a forced restart. For someone who likes to keep a web browser running for a long time and put their laptop to sleep rather than shutdown, that is not acceptable. I use Linux so I could get around that by excluding the package from updates but I don't want to run an outdated web browser that might have security vulnerabilities. I raised this a fe…

Opera is closed source which means it is not secure.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#336

Post by erk__ »

bsd44 wrote: post #300

I switched to Opera because Firefox forces invasive updates that require a forced restart. For someone who likes to keep a web browser running for a long time and put their laptop to sleep rather than shutdown, that is not acceptable. I use Linux so I could get around that by excluding the package from updates but I don't want to run an outdated web browser that might have security vulnerabilities. I raised this a fe…

Does Google browsers not also require a restart to update? So are you not just running an outdated version with security vulnerabilities until you restart it?

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#337

Post by derac »

hackthefender wrote: post #301
FractalParadigm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was having crazy issues in GDrive and GDocs where I could download nothing using FF - no PDFs, no .docx files, none of my other backed-up files, you'd click download and nothing would happen. Do the same in Chrome, Edge, Safari, Opera, even changing my user-agent to Chrome, and it works flawlessly. My solution to this problem was move everything off GDrive and into self-hosted options. If Google is going to intenti…

What self-hosted option did you pick just out of curiosity? Looking to do the same thing.

FreeNAS is solid.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#338

Post by dontblink »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #292
dontblink wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know this is because of Chrome in the first place? Another explanation is that it could be Edge or even users moving to use mobile (browsers) more? Genuinely curious where the market share and total number of users in the market (broken down) has shifted.

It may also not exclusively be anticompetitive behavior from Chrome, but just Mozilla's stewardship of Firefox. They constantly manage to generate shitstorms around updates (how does this never happen with Chrome?) and then the plain disregard/making fun of user feedback [1] is just a kick in the teeth. For me at least, that's in large part why I moved to Chrome. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20200731211652/https:…

It does happen with Chrome. See the whole ublock origin debacle. I guess it doesn't impact end users as greatly or maybe Firefox users are more vocal about changes?

Also: yikes on that link. I would feel disillusioned if my feedback was responded to in that manner. Sometimes empathy can get you so much further.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#339

Post by Sayrus »

andi999 wrote: post #146
csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

I also want a browser that when you start it doesn't let you wait for an update. Got too impatient too often with that.

Firefox 90.0 [1] can now update in the background on Windows.

[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/90.0/releasenotes/

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#340

Post by gibba999 »

granzymes wrote: post #260
gibba999 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Microsoft's primary offense was making non-Microsoft tools awkward. Windows without IE was awkward. Windows wasn't done until it gave odd error messages on DR DOS. Borland always seemed to have incomplete documentation, late. Etc. Google works poorly enough on non-Chrome browsers that it's the same thing.

You are welcome to read the complaint. I've pulled out some choice paragraphs: 5. To protect its valuable Windows monopoly against such potential competitive threats, and to extend its operating system monopoly into other software markets, Microsoft has engaged in a series of anticompetitive activities. Microsoft's conduct includes agreements tying other Microsoft software products to Microsoft's Windows operating sy…

Gosh, these sound just like Android, now that you're quoting it. My Android phone came with Chrome, gmail, Google Maps, uploads my photos to Google, and requires a Google account.

But I think that's beside the point. Microsoft did a lot of anti-competitive things in a lot of markets. Limiting scope to one particular litigation isn't really helpful here. The phrasing, "THE compliant," makes it sound like there wasn't a mountain of complaints. There was.

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