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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#331

Post by robocat »

losteric wrote: post #313
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

Real estate prices are also part of the problem, especially in urban cores... some Seattle and SF rents are just stupid, to say nothing of NYC

Real estate prices and rent are driven by how much people can only just afford it.

If people earn more, they can afford a bigger mortgage, so house prices rise.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#332

Post by imtringued »

inetknght wrote: post #176
paulpauper wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But inflaiton is very low. yeah, CPI excludes stuff, but we're a long way from the 70s and 80s.

> inflaiton is very low No it isn't. My rent is up 80% since two years ago. Food costs are up 40%. Healthcare is up 200%. Good news though: fuel costs are about the same!

Aren't you keeping up with the stats? It's the energy prices that are currently shooting up.

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#333

Post by nickff »

rbg246 wrote: post #315
nickff wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second sentence is debatable, as it appears that many European countries have high enough minimum total compensations (including benefits and other indirect costs) that unemployment is relatively high, and it can be very tough to get on the economic ladder.

But equally a poverty wage job doesn't get you on the ladder it makes you an indentured servant.

The company I work at has hired a number of employees whose only previous work was very low wage, and that (low wage) experience definitely weighed in their favor.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#334

Post by ManBlanket »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

The tone of this article also sounded like she was spitting it through clenched teeth, which I found to be incredibly distracting and defeating to the point the author was attempting to make. Was the point small business owners at establishments like Dales are facing troubles because they're fat-cat capitalist Trumpian Covid deniers whose problems aren't valid as such? That's what it sounded like. I look forward to when we can have conversations about topics like economics without hyperbolic intolerance for outsiders serving an ultimately unproductive narrative that has been driven into the ground.

I live in Missoula. I am a regular customer of Black Cat Bakery and I can see them struggling. In fact most restaurants and breweries I frequent face the same issue, a few employees desperately trying to keep an inundated ship afloat. I will tell you this article largely ignores what everyone who lives here understands is the biggest problem faced by laborers in Missoula at the moment. This city is amid a dire housing shortage, expedited by lack of new construction and a migration of buyers from more lucrative economies. The median home price increased by 57% in the last 10 years, 8.6% in the last year alone to $315k. In the meantime the median family income remains only $46k. https://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-housing-prices-se...

It is truly a seller's dream market and as such the availability of rentals has evaporated. You'd be lucky to find a 1 bedroom right now.

My wife and I bought a home here a little over a year ago and were fortunate to find the nut who, "didn't need a realtor, what with craigslist." Before then we had been outbid 5 times previously, during which we offered up to 30k above the asking price. Frankly, we wouldn't live here if we didn't get lucky. Our experiences weren't unique at the time and it has only gotten worse. I regularly hear of houses selling for 50K over listing price to people buying sight-unseen.

Frankly I don't care what the owners of Dales or Black Cat Bakery think about Covid or whether they voted for Trump. I really, sincerely, don't care. I only hope for the best for their business and their employees. I know what it's like to struggle in Missoula, I did for years and I still would be if not for dumb luck and a bit of privilege. The problems people face today are starting to pale in comparison to my own, and a solution is becoming truly urgent. I can only hope people will come to understand if we care about solving these problems, then we have to put down the tribalism and intolerance for those with different views and focus on the matter at hand.

To quote Vince Staples, "Ain't no money in havin' hate in your heart."

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#335

Post by AnimalMuppet »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #237
AdrianB1 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define the basics of survival? In parts of the world people live with 2 hamburgers a day, is that what you propose? Even $15/hour seems huge compared with basics of survival. Also, there are not enough executives to take from them to give to the poor. You need 100 or 1000 times more for that, so the executives theme is a straw man.

I would define the basics of survival as: * Basic groceries * Healthcare * Housing I don't think these things are easy to achieve but they seem like obvious goals to societal progress. If not, what are we even progressing towards? > Also, there are not enough executives to take from them to give to the poor. You need 100 or 1000 times more for that, so the executives theme is a straw man. I said if a company wants to…

I would add transportation and communications to the "basics of survival".

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#336

Post by jvp »

maxerickson wrote: post #277
inetknght wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but some of your numbers are pretty high. Cost of living across the US varies wildly. The numbers are pulled from my most recent billing cycle for Houston and partly extrapolated to minimum wage (which I am most definitely not , but have friends who are). My rent is $1500/mo for 920sqft inside the 610 loop. The leasing office wanted $2000/mo for new contracts in October last year. It's really hard to find places fo…

Are people doing office work for $7.25 in Houston? I agree that prices vary widely, I'm not sure it makes sense to take expensive places as typical.

It may not be office work, but I bet it's location dependent (restaurant, janitor, grocery store).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#337

Post by phillipcarter »

brightball wrote: post #161
phillipcarter wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so it creates a disincentive to work This framing can make it come off as though the wages were fair to begin with. The consensus seems to be that they were never fair. And people in the US are largely tired of the government giving handouts to businesses over people. It's time for those who reaped disproportional benefits over the past 40 years to eat some costs instead.

> This framing can make it come off as though the wages were fair to begin with. This framing passes the buck for inflation from the government onto businesses that have no control over it whatsoever. When the money you have buys less and less, the wages suddenly become less and less "fair" without the employer doing anything differently. Who's to say that their business has increased enough to support the higher wag…

That's a lot of speculation on your part :)

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#338

Post by humanrebar »

rbg246 wrote: post #325
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

A teenager making change on bagel purchases isn't working for "poverty wages". And a business that providing tennagers jobs isn't being exploitive.

I do think employers should be conscious about the kinds of lives they set their employees up for, though we can talk about that without overgeneralization.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#339

Post by Frondo »

WalterBright wrote: post #278
myself248 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years back, I was on a jobsite where radios were allowed, and we rotated through the crew, everyone playing deejay for a day, so everyone's taste got represented. Some guys would bring in a stack of CDs, some would just play the radio. It meant I listened to a few stations I don't normally listen to. And the density of payday loan ads, on some stations but not others, blew my mind. I don't think I ever heard one…

> that we could support? One of the most effective anti-poverty programs the government could do is teach basic accounting and finance as core curriculum in the public schools.

Or raise the minimum wage, raising the wage floor for all workers, and putting more money in the hands of poor people (who are generally much, much better at managing it than anyone else, due to the need to.)

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#340

Post by kukx »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #242
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I think the effects of price stickiness (on goods and labor) aren’t being adequately considered in these discussions. Yes, these restaurants could raise their wages to compete with unemployment, and many have. They’ll also need to raise their prices, which they have leeway to do, because everyone is facing the same costs. The problem occurs in a few months when the bonus unemployment runs out. Then there will be mill…

Rising the minimum wage is exactly the thing that should not be done, if one cares about the employment levels. It prices out the least qualified workforce of the market. To put it simply the less able/educated/experienced are not productive enough to cover own costs. So that no one wants to employ them and they are stuck. They start to rely on the government to provide them with resources and it means that have to vote for politicians that promise to keep the free money flowing. It creates a perverse relation between politicians and citizens, which may resemble a dealer addict situation.
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