Live data from Hacker News

18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

covidvaxcount.live

331–340 of 456 posts

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#331
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

I think we could just stick with positivity rates and case numbers to figure that out, like we have been doing. Once the vaccines start working their magic, we’ll see it in those metrics. That way we don’t have to try and guess how infectious someone can still be after they have had the vaccine

> I think we could just stick with positivity rates and case numbers to figure that out, like we have been doing

Sticking only with positivity rates is misleading even if one ignores all the costs of lockdowns. As the WHO pointed out on 13 January 2021[1]:

> WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases (2). This means that the probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as prevalence decreases, irrespective of the claimed specificity.

You may find this comment[2] by me and the link to the calculator to understand the impact of varying prevalence keeping false positive and false negative rates constant.

Note also,

> Most PCR assays are indicated as an aid for diagnosis, therefore, health care providers must consider any result in combination with timing of sampling, specimen type, assay specifics, clinical observations, patient history, confirmed status of any contacts, and epidemiological information.

In plain English, that says that with no illness and no contact with people suffering from Covid19 etc, a positive test does not necessarily mean that the person testing positive is infected.

This is all basic Stats but it has been conspicuously ignored for almost year now.

> The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load.

So, before the test, pick a Ct, and stick with it instead of keeping on going until you get a positive result. At higher counts, the test might be detecting left over material from a long gone infection.

> Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

So, if you are sick and get a negative, test again to make sure you can rule out SARS-Cov2. But, equivalently, if you are not sick and test positive, also make sure that this is not a false positive.

The latter is what has been globally ignored with one positive test on healthy people is regarded as proof of infection and illness. It is what is being ignored when people are not allowed to travel or work due to a positive test result. Basically, a positive test result, even without symptoms, and even with a subsequent negative, puts a scarlet letter on you which cannot be erased.

The flowchart in Figure 1 in this document[3] might also be useful. Note the first box is labeled "Patient meets the clinical criteria for COVID-19". That's where these diagnostic tests are applicable as proof of infection.

The fact that the test is useful for confirmation of infection conditional on presenting symptoms doesn't mean it is useful for screening an entire population or deciding on how much GDP to destroy because of the simple facts that in that scenario a large portion of positive test results will be false positives and these tests have high false negative rates.

[1]: https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-not...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25894449

[3]: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/334254/WHO-...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#332
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has had recorded zero locally acquired cases for more than 7 days now. At one point, Melbourne recorded 700 cases in a day, after several months of hard lockdown, it's down to 1 case in 30 days. There's also no indication that the suicide rate in 2020 changed significantly from previous years ( https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/co... )

You know that it's summer in Australia now, right?

Yep, and Melbourne had it's "second wave" in the middle of winter. Locked down and got it under control. We've had the opportunity for things to go pear shaped, but due to decisive action, an educated and thinking public and fairly strict enforcement we've got no community transmission. The only issue we have is that our methods of isolating people returning to the country are proving to be somewhat inadequate with people like cleaners picking up the virus from the isolation facilities (Hotels). These issues are being improved and it looks like we are going to continue to be virus free.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#333
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual best estimate of infection fatality rate for people under age 29 is way less than 0.1%. 0-19 years: 0.003% 20-49 years: 0.02% https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena...

And that's counting people who have bothered to get tested. If younger people are getting asymptomatic or minor symptom covid that looks like a cold, then the "true" ifr will be even lower

Infection fatality rates are based on antibody seroprevalence studies and thus accounts for asymptomatic cases. What you're thinking of is the case fatality rate, not the infection fatality rate.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#334
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we can add the vaccinated and the recovered, yes? About 25 million have recovered so far. That puts us at about 12% 'immune'.

Every medical professional I know /am related to has indicated that getting covid only grants 90 days immunity. Across state lines, they all have said that herd immunity visa infection is impossible as it requires everyone to be infected within a three month span.

This is charitably a misconception, and very possibly an outright lie. Nothing indicates a 90 day cutoff to immunity. On the face of it, that should make anyone reading this sceptical.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#335
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the new “we have no evidence masks help” or “no evidence of asymptomatic spread”. Name a vaccine that doesn’t reduce onward transmission even as it cures disease. It’s overwhelmingly likely that the vaccine will slow transmission and foolish to throw our priors in the garbage bin. What we don’t know yet is how much onward transmission will be reduced.

Name a disease where the measure of infection is a PCR test with a 40+ cycle threshold.

Whats the normal cycle threshold for identifying pathogens? This is interesting.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#336
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push for increasingly oppressive restrictions. The economic meltdown resulting from these restrictions is pushing even the most capitalist countries much further onto the socialism spectrum than anyone could have imagined just a year ago. Some political parties vie…

Just say no to Q.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#337
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we could just stick with positivity rates and case numbers to figure that out, like we have been doing. Once the vaccines start working their magic, we’ll see it in those metrics. That way we don’t have to try and guess how infectious someone can still be after they have had the vaccine

> I think we could just stick with positivity rates and case numbers to figure that out, like we have been doing Sticking only with positivity rates is misleading even if one ignores all the costs of lockdowns. As the WHO pointed out on 13 January 2021[1]: > WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases…

Nice, downvoted for a thoughtful post supported by facts and logic.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#338
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the new “we have no evidence masks help” or “no evidence of asymptomatic spread”. Name a vaccine that doesn’t reduce onward transmission even as it cures disease. It’s overwhelmingly likely that the vaccine will slow transmission and foolish to throw our priors in the garbage bin. What we don’t know yet is how much onward transmission will be reduced.

Name a disease where the measure of infection is a PCR test with a 40+ cycle threshold.

In this paper they've used 45 for HIV. What's your point?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/art/2016/7954810/

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please note I specifically said I wish they could experience the fear . It is not a wish for anyone to experience death, let alone a painful one. People rarely have to confront the extent of the results of their actions and as a result don't really think on those terms. Personal experience is an effective, often painful teacher. I can't claim to know your entire perspective, but from the outside, refusing to accept a…

Thanks for the reply. And er, good that you don’t actually want to go as far as killing me - there’s some wild shit out there right now. I would still be in favor of arguing about all the details over drinks, but for now I’ll just offer the roughest outline of the other perspective, which is: Refusing to accept a temporarily increased risk of disease, and instead dramatically increasing the chance that your fellow hu…

Are you able to come out and make your point, or are you constraint to vague phrases with threatening words?

Just as a tip: this is super annoying and not very clever.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. My grandma tested positive on a Monday around a month ago and went into hospice the following Thursday night, when her oxygen dropped. She passed away the following Saturday morning. My girlfriend's grandma also passed from COVID a few weeks ago. When it rains it pours, eh? The whole thing is just horrible to deal with. Not having a chance to say goodbye or go through the grieving process together. It's ju…

That number does seem like a lot but in the same time period several million people died from other causes. Death is quite natural.

Death rate in my country has roughly doubled. This tends to ruffle some feathers.
Post reply on HN