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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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331–340 of 639 posts

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#331

I'm always frustrated by journalists who never mention the case number (why not?), let alone link to a copy of the actual ruling. Here's a PDF of the ruling, I think it's worth reading: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21814075/c...

> why not?

Easy: a link off their site doesn't earn them any money. They want to you stay on their domain.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#332
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would much rather see BaseCamp (Hey) or the company that was selling virtual workouts with real trainers take them to court. I wouldn’t, because they’d be crushed. I’d rather that if someone takes Apple to court, it’s someone with the resources to make a dent. > I’m surprised (not really) that people are defending Epic but would never defend King (Candy Crush) or the makers of FarmVille. Even if you think they’re…

Who has a better story to tell Epic “we want to sell useless virtual goods with 0 marginal cost” or BaseCamp - “we run a small business, pay our employees well, always sought to be profitable instead of VC funding, etc.” Everybody eats up the small business angle. Besides DHH is a lot less slimy than anyone who Epic parades out. If they started a GoFundMe, I would donate to their legal defense. What Epic wants will p…

> Who has a better story to tell

Basecamp’s story is irrelevant if they’re forced into bankruptcy before they get the chance to tell it where it makes a difference.

We’re not watching a feel good movie where the righteous little guy prevails. They’d get squashed and tossed aside, and they know it.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand why others find it strange you don't and why they do though, right?

I think it's strange that you don't want me to have the product I want to have. Nobody is forcing you to buy an Apple product, and there are plenty of stellar alternative products from numerous other brands.

What is in the level on apple silicon?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#334
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a challenge to gain a foothold for sure. I suspect the way in would be to have a way to support Android apps (I believe windows phone was doing this for a while?) As far as malware, I’m not sure why it would be more of an issue on an open platform than it would on Android. I use Linux as a daily driver, and as long as you’re getting software from trusted sources, it’s not much of a concern. I don’t see wh…

> As far as malware, I’m not sure why it would be more of an issue on an open platform than it would on Android. > I use Linux as a daily driver, and as long as you’re getting software from trusted sources, it’s not much of a concern. I don’t see why it would be different on mobile. Not sure if that's true – doesn't Google keep the Play store mostly free of serious malware? Apart from stunts like sideloading Fortnite…

> But if every company, publisher, developer may host their own, including their own OpenPlay Services, how do you tell what is a trustworthy source?

This is exactly the situation you have now with Android: anyone can install an APK from anywhere if they want to.

As far as establishing trustworthy sources, I would imagine this would work a lot like using Apt on debian. You could have a trusted package manager where there is some vetting process for getting listed, and you would trust the community to identify and report malicious packages quickly.

Also unlike the app store or google play, you'd likely be running mostly open source software you can inspect yourself if you want to make sure it's safe.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only two choices, which means the market is monopalized. If apple had been reasonable we wouldn't be having this discussion. Apple has shown it can no longer reasonably regulate its own market and will not be the Shepard. Their significant efforts of verticle integration from hardware to software shows their inclination to creating walled garden markets that compete at the economy of scale and are designed to…

> There's only two choices, which means the market is monopalized. Literally not what monopolized means.

Duopolized. The rest of the argument still holds, and a weaker form of it holds for Google as well, since stores like F-Droid can't do everything that Google Play can.

Please steelman the arguments you disagree with.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#336
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has a better story to tell Epic “we want to sell useless virtual goods with 0 marginal cost” or BaseCamp - “we run a small business, pay our employees well, always sought to be profitable instead of VC funding, etc.” Everybody eats up the small business angle. Besides DHH is a lot less slimy than anyone who Epic parades out. If they started a GoFundMe, I would donate to their legal defense. What Epic wants will p…

> Who has a better story to tell Basecamp’s story is irrelevant if they’re forced into bankruptcy before they get the chance to tell it where it makes a difference. We’re not watching a feel good movie where the righteous little guy prevails. They’d get squashed and tossed aside, and they know it .

So it’s better to have yet another avenue for shady developers to take advantage of “whales” via loot boxes and in game consumables - the very thing that the government is going after?

What jury is going to care that Epic can’t sell useless virtual currency and make a larger profit?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#337
post #264

A victory for sanity. Apple threatening developmental licenses and anyone who used the Unreal Engine was nothing short of mafia-esque, and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.

Isn't this still an Epic issue? Basically if Epic delivered their engine to their customers as source code and NOT as a compiled binary couldn't the customers build the engine and include it in their App Store submission? But since Epic is trying to deliver the compiled engine to their customer (signed with their dev keys) thats where the problem comes in?

I bet some of their customers won't be able to build the engine. Or just switch to something else with less friction involved.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We wouldn't have the audience/opportuity without Apple Is that worth 30% till the end of time? Your argument is like crabs in a bucket -- one crab tries to get a better deal and you pull him down because you have to pay. Lets say, somehow, Epic manages to get that fee lowered to something more reasonable for everyone. Would you not be happy with that?

This is the crux of the matter: is it anticompetitive to setup an ecosystem where you always get a cut? Generally, historically, no, this is not anticompetitive, especially given there is another ecosystem with far more market share (but maybe not profitability because more people spend money on iOS apps). Inserting yourself to take a cut for a service or a key component is good business practice, and built the empir…

What's more scary is not that a single company or group of companies will be a permanent fixture but rather that this model of computing will be permanent!

If you would have told me 20 years ago that the creator of an operating system would take a 30% cut of every piece of software sold, I would have thought you crazy. If you would have told me Apple or Microsoft would dictate to me what software I could run, I would have considered that a massive invasion of freedom. But today this model is considered totally normal and encouraged.

We aren't seeing other companies competing with this model on price or freedom -- we see companies wanting to enforce their own control and get their own 30% cut. Microsoft has tried it. Google is doing it. Oculus does it. Apple will certainly bring it MacOS.

As software developers and users, is that really what we want?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I definitely think it's in my interest and the interest of the vast majority of iPhone users to have Apple make these decisions. I'd rather every developer leave the App Store than switch away from the current model. I'd just use Apple's built-in apps.

Your own situation wouldn't be different if you had alternatives to Apple's store. Apple can even market their own store as the one with higher quality apps and promote their safety guarantees. Applications from another store wouldn't have to be less "safe" (depending on your definition) as other iOS applications, they would still use the same sandbox system and all the other standard APIs. You can always decide to s…

It is an open secret that Apple cannot build secure software, that its sandboxing is subpar and that the app store compensates for its failings — kind of how a totalitarian state with weak internal structures compensates for it through inflicting violence.

Where the pedal really hits the metal is with the cost of buying zero day exploits. iOS exploits can be had for much cheaper than Android ones.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inside of a week California Assembly Bill 5 was signed into law last September and was clearly a "Going to Happen" event for at least a year prior. There's no surprise here. Uber had plenty of time to figure out how to deal with this. And they did: they aren't dummies, this was their plan. Their considered decision was that it was in the best interests of their shareholders to play brinksmanship games with their em…

It’s no game. Uber didn’t like the rules of the state - it’s leaving the state. That’s a perfectly logical thing to do.

If Uber shareholders thought that they were walking away from all revenue in the state of California their shares would tank. We all know this is brinksmanship. I know it. You know it. They aren't leaving CA. The goal here is to get the "other side" to blink and adjust the rules so they can continue to operate. But at the end of the day Uber isn't abandoning the California ride share market to its competitors. Be real.
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