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Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

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Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#331

Post by marcosdumay »

cvs268 wrote: post #232
donmcronald wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any submissions have to be reviewed in a reasonable amount of time and if declined must receive specific violations of the guidelines on which the denial is based Competing app stores solves this 100% because there would definitely be a market for a developer friendly app store.

Competing app stores would raise another problem though. One that occurred with certifying agencies in the financial crisis of 2008. In a world with competing app-stores, if a store does its scrutiny properly, and is seen as too strict, then the apps will flock to get listed in other less-strict app-stores. Thus all stores are incentivised to relax the scrutiny to retain apps for their own survival. Sometimes to the…

If app availability is the only dimension users care about, then sure, there will be a race into malware infested low quality stores. And what's the problem? It's the best for everybody here.

But your comment really points out that not everybody wants that. So your scenario won't happen on practice.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#332

Post by yyyk »

cvs268 wrote: post #232
donmcronald wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any submissions have to be reviewed in a reasonable amount of time and if declined must receive specific violations of the guidelines on which the denial is based Competing app stores solves this 100% because there would definitely be a market for a developer friendly app store.

Competing app stores would raise another problem though. One that occurred with certifying agencies in the financial crisis of 2008. In a world with competing app-stores, if a store does its scrutiny properly, and is seen as too strict, then the apps will flock to get listed in other less-strict app-stores. Thus all stores are incentivised to relax the scrutiny to retain apps for their own survival. Sometimes to the…

This doesn't happen on Android where 95% of applications are listed at the app store (excluding China), despite the existence of alternate stores. Why would it happen anywhere else? The main app stores have too much of an head start to lose their primary role, unless they screw up massively.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#333

Post by lioeters »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #298
rubber_duck wrote: post #5

Really at this point Apple control over app store is anti-competitive (and Google over play store), having to rely on community outrage to get stuff like this turned is ridiculous. They should create legislation to control access to all app stores to prevent this rent seeking - force app stores to treat all apps equally according to store defined guidelines (including store owners apps) - any submissions have to be r…

I think it's interesting that this story hit the front page at the same time as the one about Facebook's fact-checking shenanigans, which concluded that leaving this in the hands of a private company wasn't working. Are FAANG (well possibly not 'N') about to face nationalisation? Or United-Nationalisation given that they're all global organisations and having them run by the completely dysfunctional US government isn…

> what responsibility does government have if that drastic effect stops the business from being profitable?

If the business relies on anti-competitive behavior to stay profitable, then any regulation that improves the situation will necessarily affect that business' bottom line.

I wouldn't be surprised if FAANG and their dominant positions in the market are considered important to "national security", in an economic sense of the term. (And perhaps from surveillance/intelligence perspective, and control of information access.)

In that case, it would be in the national interest to support - or at least let continue without disruption by pesky regulations - their anti-competitive behavior that ensures that dominant global position.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#334

Post by dylan604 »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #280
dylan604 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried to negotiate to get your product sold on a shelf? It is very much not a level playing field. WalMart is infamous for beating sellers down to such a low per unit price with the promise of making it up on quantity. Target, BestBuy, and any other big box retailer only follow WalMart's lead. Then there's the fact that if your product doesn't sell well according to their metrics, you are forced to buy it back f…

There's a saying in economics that "in a perfectly competitive market, nobody is making a profit - because if they are, someone is losing customers". In a perfectly competitive market, everyone lowers prices to the point they can't lower them anymore, and that tends to be the same price for all competitors. In a market where someone is making billions in profit, it's almost de-facto evidence of a lack of competition.…

> Who else can charge 30% on every sale just because?

Every physical product retailer charges > 30%. This is what I'm suggesting is the confusion point. If an app developer sells an app for $0.99, then the dev gets $0.66 per transaction. If a physical product producer sells something with an MSRP of $0.99, the retailer will be purchasing the item at a wholesale price of closer to 50% of the MSRP (if not a higher percentage) leaving at max $0.50 per item. This shows how much easier the software dev has it.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#335

Post by dragonwriter »

nodamage wrote: post #270
apatters wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that they are. I did say that something smells rotten (products getting worse and prices going up), but this alone is not justification for punitive measures. The government playbook in this sort of situation is normally to start subpoena'ing emails, execs etc. and look for hard evidence of actual anti-competitive practices. They're not only interested in a business model as it's described in the media,…

Wouldn't an antitrust claim against Apple likely fail if the plaintiff cannot establish they actually have market power in the smartphone market?

> Wouldn't an antitrust claim against Apple likely fail if the plaintiff cannot establish they actually have market power in the smartphone market?

Well, assuming it is one based on abuse of market power and not the other kinds of antitrust violations (e.g., combination in restraint of trade, etc.), it would fail if the plaintiff couldn't establish that Apple had market power in the market for the product for which they allegedly abused market power. If that was iPhones, for instance, that would be the market for iPhones plus whatever products empirically people substitute for iPhones in response to pricing changes. (Of course, if Apple has market power, there is some range in which the “plus...” part is “none”, since market or pricing power is the ability to raise prices without driving sales to a competing good.)

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#336

Post by em-bee »

Terretta wrote: post #323
em-bee wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the equivalent would be that you can only use an apple car to go shopping in the apple store, and you can't use that apple car to go shopping anywhere else.

The equivalent would be that you can only use an apple console to go shopping in the apple store, much like only using an Xbox to shop in the Xbox store ... so the analogy does work and the marketplace is fine with it, and clear. // FWIW, I wish I could play Horizon Zero Dawn on that Xbox, but it’s not in the Xbox store.

see my comment below. it's a vertical lock-in. and just because the market tolerates it, that doesn't mean it is healthy and good.

for each case we need to look at how that store is managed and who gets access to it under what conditions.

it is my impression though that microsoft acts like a publisher for the games on the xbox, iaw they take responsibility for the games being published, picking carefully who they work with, whereas apple simply sells access to the market for a 30% cut. so xbox is a private club that you need to get invited to, whereas apple store is claiming to be an open market, except that it isn't.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#337

Post by scarface74 »

romanoderoma wrote: post #320
scarface74 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now you expect Congress to force Apple to sell you an iPad at the same price it sells to a corporation that buys 1000s? Of course Apple is going to make a deal with Amazon when Amazon can offer it another sales channel.

> So now you expect Congress to force Apple to sell you an iPad at the same price it sells to a corporation that buys 1000s? I honestly expect the congress to remove Apple powers as gatekeeper If the Apple Store is the only store for iOS devices, they have to allow any app in and let the authorities handle misbehaviour Apple is not a National State, so it shouldn't act as the ruler and dictator of the State. I expect…

I honestly expect the congress to remove Apple powers as gatekeeper

So you expect the same government that passed DMCA, COPPA, that is trying to get rid of end to end encryption, did the things that came out via Snowden, warranties wiretaps, buying location data from carriers, dismantled net neutrality, etc. to actually not do something malicious with more power and control?

If the Apple Store is the only store for iOS devices, they have to allow any app in and let the authorities handle misbehaviour

So Apple should have allowed the Facebook VPN so that spied on users? You really want the government controlling which apps can go on your phone? Have you been paying attention to the government over the past two decades? You really want to give it more power?

That's what I expect from the country that sell itself as the land of the free (and champion of free market)

So more government control is your definition of a free market?

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#338

Post by nojvek »

In a way every App Store is somewhat a walled garden. I like that there aren’t a 1000 anti-virus scam apps on the App Store.

Just want the process to be sane.

Like being able to install other apps on the Mac. They make it very hard to install non Apple signed apps. But it’s possible.

In iOS, it’s not possible. It’s my device, let me do what I want with it. Let me create things with it, not be just a content consumer.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#339

Post by jschenk »

userbinator wrote: post #44
7tsfmCAusrQ wrote: post #36

As an app developer myself, with apps on both the Google Play Store and the App Store with over 250K monthly active users, I have become so frustrated with Apple's arbitrary and capricious enforcement of its App Store regulations, its bullying and coercion of developers, its extortionate fees, and its monopolistic anti-competitive practices, that I have stopped updating my apps on the App Store. I wonder how many oth…

I'd like to see regulation that forces Apple and Google to allow any and all app stores on their devices, and the process of installing apps through those stores must be, by law, equally easy and straightforward as through their own stores (i.e., no security warnings or other jank). I'm pretty sure that will have massive opposition, because they are deathly scared of opening their devices back to the general-purpose…

That's literally what Epic is asking for.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#340

Post by romanoderoma »

scarface74 wrote: post #337
romanoderoma wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So now you expect Congress to force Apple to sell you an iPad at the same price it sells to a corporation that buys 1000s? I honestly expect the congress to remove Apple powers as gatekeeper If the Apple Store is the only store for iOS devices, they have to allow any app in and let the authorities handle misbehaviour Apple is not a National State, so it shouldn't act as the ruler and dictator of the State. I expect…

I honestly expect the congress to remove Apple powers as gatekeeper So you expect the same government that passed DMCA, COPPA, that is trying to get rid of end to end encryption, did the things that came out via Snowden, warranties wiretaps, buying location data from carriers, dismantled net neutrality, etc. to actually not do something malicious with more power and control? If the Apple Store is the only store for i…

> So you expect the same government that passed DMCA, COPPA

are you familiar with the concept of "non sequitur"?

are you obsessed with those topics?

You keep posting them over and over, are you ok?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24245096

> You really want the government controlling which apps can go on your phone?

at least I can vote for politics

can I vote for the Apple board of directors?

> So more government control is your definition of a free market?

Fair regulation is, yes.

There is no free unregulated market.

Regulation is a government duty.

BUT

as someone else already told to you

"I'm unsure how [...] it is related to any of that."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24245153

p.s.: is a Nobel laureate in economic science good enough to explain you why the faith in unregulated free markets is silly?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/upshot/faith-in-an-unregu...

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