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Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

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Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#221

Post by stephenr »

cageface wrote: post #219
stephenr wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your choice to make, but pretending that developing web apps is all sunshine and lollipops and developing local apps for distribution via an OS vendor's store is fire and brimstone, is not realistic.

Do you really think that's a fair characterization of my point? If any of it was all sunshine and lollipops they wouldn't have to pay us to do it because people would be queuing up to do it for free.

I don't know because you started off by making claims about "broken ecosystem".

The App Store may have undesirable qualities for some parties but to claim that it is a "broken ecosystem" just tells me that you're looking to exchange ridiculous hyperbole.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#222

Post by scarface74 »

chromedev wrote: post #218
scarface74 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did that work out for a Fortnite?

I use F-Droid everyday to install and manage apps outside the Play Store and it works out fine for me. Android is also open source. If I don't like the way something is done then I'm free to change it, and there are multiple ROMs that I can choose from as well.

Good luck with the “open source” version of Android and running apps that depend on Google Play Services.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#223

Post by ehsankia »

g_p wrote: post #8
rubber_duck wrote: post #5

Really at this point Apple control over app store is anti-competitive (and Google over play store), having to rely on community outrage to get stuff like this turned is ridiculous. They should create legislation to control access to all app stores to prevent this rent seeking - force app stores to treat all apps equally according to store defined guidelines (including store owners apps) - any submissions have to be r…

One of the biggest issues with Google play store review is they won't actually tell developers which rule they're breaking, as you point out. This is so incredibly developer-hostile that the fact developers keep using the play store pretty much helps make the case they're acting in an anticompetitive manner. It certainly is interesting to note Google removed the title "Non-competition" from clause 4.5 of their develo…

I absolutely agree that from a developer point of view, this is awful, but just to play devil's advocate here, the reasoning generally given for these is that bad actors tend to tweak their apps to bypass rules a lot faster and efficiently if you always tell them exactly what to fix to get unbanned. I agree developers shouldn't be treated like this, but it still is true that malicious apps are a real problem and bad actors continually try to break things and minmax ways to get around the rules.

As users and developer, that's a side that we don't really get to see, so it's hard to judge how justified these techniques are. What alternative solution do you propose that would help developers without at the same time making bad actors lives easier.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#224

Post by apatters »

nodamage wrote: post #182
apatters wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comments based on a good faith belief that you're open to learning more about how antitrust law works. It has little to do with market share, and everything to do with a concept called "market power." Market power is the ability to coerce people into paying more for something via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service. A textbook example which most people would agree is ba…

> Market power is the ability to coerce people into paying more for something via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service. How exactly does Apple "coerce people into paying more for their phones via a mechanism other than actually offering a better product or service", and what is that mechanism? > But if a firm is able to drive up prices with impunity for any reason, it's likely they pos…

I'm not sure that they are. I did say that something smells rotten (products getting worse and prices going up), but this alone is not justification for punitive measures.

The government playbook in this sort of situation is normally to start subpoena'ing emails, execs etc. and look for hard evidence of actual anti-competitive practices. They're not only interested in a business model as it's described in the media, they want to know what company execs actually did. If they find something they file a suit.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#225

Post by ViViDboarder »

scarface74 wrote: post #101
mortenjorck wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an allergy to tech analogies in general, but Apple's brick-and-mortar retail analogy is one of the worst. In any locality other than rural towns served by a single Dollar General, consumers have a choice between multiple retail outlets. If they don't like the choices at one store, they're free to shop at another. "But Android!" one might say, and once again, the analogy falls completely flat. The switching cos…

Name one app that is of any importance on iOS that there isn’t available on Android or that would cause you to have to buy again? I have exactly one - Overcast. Even with that I can export to OPML (?).

App availability isn’t the only cost in switching. Even if so, a duopoly is still a concern as a consumer.

Having to chose between only AT&T and Comcast for cable because they are the only providers to your area is not a fair choice. Sure, nothing stops me from moving. I can get power, water, and commute from elsewhere too. But it’s a pain and sucks.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#226

Post by rubber_duck »

bloblaw wrote: post #81
rubber_duck wrote: post #5

Really at this point Apple control over app store is anti-competitive (and Google over play store), having to rely on community outrage to get stuff like this turned is ridiculous. They should create legislation to control access to all app stores to prevent this rent seeking - force app stores to treat all apps equally according to store defined guidelines (including store owners apps) - any submissions have to be r…

> They should create legislation to control access to all app stores to prevent this rent seeking You have a lot of faith in 60+ year old (mostly tech-illiterate men) to fix technology they don't understand. Government isn't the solution to this problem. Developers leaving the app store is probably only what will get Apple to change.

They did a decent job with credit cards eventually.

Developers leaving won't happen, Apple and Google will cut a deal with big guys (Netflix, Amazon) and ignore smaller players (even Epic in this case)

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#227

Post by scarface74 »

Marsymars wrote: post #215
scarface74 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one app that is of any importance on iOS that there isn’t available on Android or that would cause you to have to buy again? I have exactly one - Overcast. Even with that I can export to OPML (?).

Well, Apple Maps, Photos, Siri, and Messages. (I'd be willing to pay a subscription fee to have them on Android. As is, I just do without, and deal with ridiculous workarounds like having my Android phone save my photos to OneDrive and them manually copying them over to Photos on my Mac.)

Really? I’m an iPhone user and even I admit that Google Maps, Google Photos and whatever Google is calling their voice assistant today are better. If I were serious about photos I would use Lightroom.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#228

Post by valuearb »

rubber_duck wrote: post #5

Really at this point Apple control over app store is anti-competitive (and Google over play store), having to rely on community outrage to get stuff like this turned is ridiculous. They should create legislation to control access to all app stores to prevent this rent seeking - force app stores to treat all apps equally according to store defined guidelines (including store owners apps) - any submissions have to be r…

Apple is pretty good at listening to developers and overturning their mistakes. This is an example.

To have a good App Review system, there are going to be mistakes made. Having actual people there the developers can appeal and talk to is critical.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#229

Post by Marsymars »

Google234 wrote: post #57
commoner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple collects 0.15% of all credit card transactions made through Apple Pay for US-based cards. The percentage is higher for the Apple Card, of course. https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-loses-key-mobile-payment... https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/10/apple-pay-credit-card-is-...

They can’t take 0, the service isn’t freee to develop

They can take 0, that's Google's cut on Google Pay.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#230

Post by ehsankia »

parasubvert wrote: post #153

I find the group think here to be incredible, and you all will likely be very disappointed when the legal system winds up supporting Apple. Regulating retailers because you don’t like their cut is price controls, which is completely contrary to a free market, and ultimately undermines the end user experience of having a trusted, secure store. Perhaps Google or Apple’s power is so strong as to warrant regulation - but…

I personally don't think 30% is particularly high in normal app selling scenarios. The two bigger issues with Apple's system are

1. The complete control over the ecosystem, which is gated and opaque. No alternatives to bypass the App Store.

2. 30% is fine for single app sales, but when you're an app that sells monthly subscriptions or tons of in-game content, it just doesn't scale the same.

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