Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#331

Post by bluedino » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

chillwaves wrote: post #299

treeman79 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good insight. Coming together is tricky when there is no common grounds. One side wants wealth to be fairly Evenly distributed to help the poor. The other side helps the poor by creating so much wealth that that most poor people have a lot of wealth. These days you can be considered poor and have housing, ac, heat, tv, video games, maybe a car, and weight problems because food is so cheap. This only leaves those who…

They are poor because they live on a knife's edge, one accident away from financial insolvency or lack of sufficient access to necessities like health care and education opportunities. Also having to work multiple jobs to break even. The problem isn't "inequality" it is that the floor in the US is so low compared to other wealthy nations.

Lots of people who make decent money live paycheck to paycheck because of poor decisions

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#332

Post by dcftoapv » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #303

dcftoapv wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@tom No, it's not being built. The train that is currently under construction will connect the airport terminals to a cab stand and car rental station less than a mile from the airport because LA taxi drivers threw a shit fit when they suggested building a train into downtown and Santa Monica. By the way, we're paying $4 billion for that. $4 billion to carry passengers less than a mile from the airport so they can th…

Blame the corrupt officials that enabled this, you can hardly blame a union for trying to act in their own self interest. They don't represent you but the city does.

I'll continue to blame the minority interests that are doing everything possible to keep LA transportation stuck in the stone ages, thank you.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#333

Post by Daishiman » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #162

Daishiman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal risk isn't an isolated thing. Thousands of people taking personal risk have systemic effects, and these companies aren't paying into it, even though everyone around these "risk-takers" suffer the consequences.

> Thousands of people taking personal risk have systemic effects How do you know the personal situation of each of Uber's/Lyft's drivers? How do we measure risk for each person in an objective way? Some people might be at no risk, some higher. We can't know! What right is there in taking away options that benefit some people because it might possibly not work well for someone who voluntarily signed a contract? This i…

The fact that in most places in the world there's legislation that defines requirements and responsibilities for professional drivers, from qualifications, to insurance, alcohol intake, maximum working hours, minimum rest hours, etc., Implies that it totally does exist.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#334

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

dcftoapv wrote: post #136

lovecg wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The talking points I heard was that this was done because of 1) Payroll tax revenue 2) Unions feeling threatened The implication is in either case it’s an explicitly hostile action by the government in favor of special interests, and the majority of drivers did not want this. Can anyone more knowledgeable on the topic pitch in — is there any truth to these arguments?

The Los Angeles taxi union prevented (read: bribed and coerced) the state / city government from installing a train from LAX to DTLA because they were rolling in cash. Then, they got pissed about Uber, and had a rule enacted that forced passengers to take a bus to an external lot which turned the world's worst airport congestion into a way worse situation. It is not unrealistic to think that they are a driving force…

The Los Angeles taxi union prevented (read: bribed and coerced) the state / city government from installing a train from LAX to DTLA because they were rolling in cash.

This is false. Pure FUD. The LA taxi union isn't a very powerful union, and was never the primary roadblock to building the Green Line all the way to the airport. The FAA was the reason: they thought the power lines for the rail line would interfere with landing paths of planes. https://www.dailynews.com/2008/01/09/why-green-line-stopped-...

California is corrupt as fuck, from GM paying LA to take out way more efficient train lines so they could sell buses to Beverly Hills preventing LA from building a subway. It makes living here absolutely miserable.

This is also a fraudulent representation of history. The old rail lines (i.e., Pacific Electric) were never profitable because they were intended as loss leaders for suburban housing developments. The lines ultimately went bankrupt when cars became popular because they had a max speed of approximately 15 mph. When LA formed its nascent public transportation system in the 50s, it acquired the few busy/profitable lines remaining. Some of those rights of way were used for new rail construction (for example, the E line to Santa Monica).

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#335

Post by grumple » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

mardifoufs wrote: post #301

Retric wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality is debatable but none of eBay, Amazon, or Etsy enforce prices. Fundamentally choosing prices is what defines markets, trying to set them is the actions of an employer.

I'm not sure but I think amazon enforces some kind of forced price adjustment policy. IIRC they change the prices if their algo detect lower prices somewhere else on the internet or on similar listings. I'll try to find the WSJ article where I've read about this.

Maybe for their own products. Definitely not for others.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#336

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

granzymes wrote: post #326

gruez wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and the residents of California don't want the change (exhibited by the threads yesterday with outcry over the decision to shut down)... but didn't they also vote in favor of AB5? I'd take a referendum result over a non-uniform sampling of people's opinions. edit: nevermind. AB5 wasn't a referendum, so citizens actually didn't get to vote on it.

No, the referendum is this November (prop 22).

[deleted]

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#337

Post by darkwizard42 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

afrojack123 wrote: post #325

Possibly a dumb and general question. Is Uber and Lyft responsible for state tax revenue from its contractors? Or are the contractors supposed to pay their own taxes? I could understand the states having problems with contractor's paying their own taxes considering their incomes are lower.

Independent contractors pay their own taxes. Uber and Lyft offer tools and assistance to help drivers adequately report and take deductions etc. as needed (Lyft at least offers the ability to export ride data etc. as needed, I believe but am not sure if Uber does the same).

Companies pay taxes for their employees (different tax relationship altogether). Another way to think about it is... do you ever pay taxes for a painter or plumber that does a job for you? (probably not)

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#338

Post by vinay427 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #71

This is all a shit show because the infrastructures in place are currently doomed for the market to succeed: - no healthcare means you're a slave of whatever you can find, - tipping culture means your employer can pay you shit

The larger issue with employers paying insufficiently is minimum wages that are too low. Federal minimum wage still applies for tipped workers, as far as I can tell, so employers are required to compensate the difference if workers make less. The same seems to apply to most states that have higher minimum wages, and in a few the minimum wage (excluding tips) is the same regardless of tipping.

EDIT: Adding a source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#339

Post by dcftoapv » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #334

dcftoapv wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Los Angeles taxi union prevented (read: bribed and coerced) the state / city government from installing a train from LAX to DTLA because they were rolling in cash. Then, they got pissed about Uber, and had a rule enacted that forced passengers to take a bus to an external lot which turned the world's worst airport congestion into a way worse situation. It is not unrealistic to think that they are a driving force…

The Los Angeles taxi union prevented (read: bribed and coerced) the state / city government from installing a train from LAX to DTLA because they were rolling in cash. This is false. Pure FUD. The LA taxi union isn't a very powerful union, and was never the primary roadblock to building the Green Line all the way to the airport. The FAA was the reason: they thought the power lines for the rail line would interfere wi…

Every other city in the country has figured out rail transportation. The FAA could have been pacified if there was any political will to find a real solution. Blaming the FAA because they rejected one design is pure bs.

GM most definitely ran a campaign through the '50s and '60s designed to increase the use of buses as a replacement for street cars. That's not anywhere close to debatable and LA was not the only city that went along with it.

And if you're going to continue to claim that corruption is not the driving force behind these decisions then I would love your explanation for BH doing everything in their power to prevent and delay a rail line because they didn't want homeless people to be have easy access to the area. It's all about money, not the common good. Nobody here is planning for anything other than their own pocketbook.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#340

Post by mardifoufs » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

That's pretty much the total opposite of what's happening right now. Uber (and the recent group of "tech but not really" unicorns in general) have if anything burnt hundreds of billions of VC/PE money thus directly subsidizing the costs of hundreds of millions of users, for very slim profits at best.

Yes, it's because they are expecting future returns on their "burnt" money. But considering the risks, the enormous amounts involved, the meagre margins involved even in a market dominant postion and that there are still no signs of profitability or even positive cash flow, I don't see how this can be seen as just a wealth transfert from society to the wealthy. Even in their best case scenario, they will be able to get meagre returns from perpetually capital intensive, low margin businesses. That's far from obscene wealth extraction imo.

Sure, some early VCs made tons of money off of this new era of unicorns, but that was pretty much all coming from other VC or private equity that have had to keep the money pump going.