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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#331

Post by Shebanator »

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

The student debt problem has little to do with the people who go to elite universities. Let me give a slightly biased plug to my nephew's documentary on the problem, Fail State (https://failstatemovie.com/), produced by Dan Rather. He started out making a movie about student debt in general, and found that the problem was so much worse for poorer people attending for-profit colleges that he had to change his focus. See also his latest project, https://www.defendstudents.org/stories

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#332

Post by room500 »

timr wrote: post #328
room500 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is an assumption. Unfortunately, this situation is unprecedented, so everything we do has to be an educated guess. I would also note that you followed it up with an assumption of your own ;) It is well established that physical distancing limits the spread of virus transmitted via respiratory droplets. If you refute that, I would require significant peer-reviewed literature on your side. https://academic.oup.…

I would also note that you followed it up with an assumption of your own ;) What assumption is that? I stated a fact that you can verify with a Google search. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-corona...

It was a snide remark. My apologies

Can you respond to the rest of the comment?

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#333

Post by werber »

watwut wrote: post #240
bumby wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I think many of the people who weren’t well off only afforded this experience by taking on debt. Besides, there’s more ways than just college to have that “real” growth experience. Military, mission work, peace corps. Hell, I’d even argue these are more of an experience because they aren’t built on the somewhat artificial backdrop of universities that can insulate you from the “real” world without all the…

Military will insulate you quite a lot from everything not military.

I have no military experience. But I've talked to people who have claimed that the experience erases racially biased tendencies in a lot of people through exposure and a familial bond with people from different backgrounds. It's anecdotal, but I sincerely hope that is the case

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#334

Post by holden_nelson »

triceratops wrote: post #225
ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades have been more lucrative than many liberal arts-esque jobs for decades. Awareness isn’t the issue. The issue is social acceptability. Until plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. stop being a part of the undesirable Other to middle and upper middle class Americans, nothing will change. Paying $100,000 for your kid to study underwater basket weaving at Harvard is still socially superior to running a multi-mil…

Trades are tough on the body. A job-related injury can leave you unable to work. It seems like a rational choice to make the same amount of money typing on a computer, especially in a country lacking a significant social net.

Sitting and typing at a computer all day isn't particularly healthy either, for what it's worth. I do recognize that standing desks can mitigate this, but it's even tough on the wrists.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#335

Post by jariel »

impendia wrote: post #302
jariel wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many universities cannot." "Most" cannot.

I work as a professor at the University of South Carolina. I suspect that my employer, as well as similar universities, will be more-or-less okay. To be sure, there will be pain . Faculty hiring, for example, will take a huge hit -- I feel bad for everyone finishing up grad school and postdocs now, and who was anticipating hitting the academic job market. In addition, there might be layoffs of tenured faculty, and/or…

University of Michigan will be hit for $1B

It's definitely an existential threat to the system. The reason unis might survive are 1) government aid direct and indirect 2) Unis have otherwise heavily incumbent positions and the banks will provide money, maybe on ugly terms.

Most colleges are panicking right now, this is not the kind of situation they are in any way equipped to handle.

[1] https://www.newser.com/story/289974/2/colleges-face-existent...

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#336

Post by weehoo »

Gwypaas wrote: post #204
fiftyfifty wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come to the conclusion that this is what most parents and students are looking for...a [relatively] safe place to finish growing up. The degree is only part of the equation.

I feel this is the consequence of the American style no responsibilities system. Why on earth should an 18 year old high school senior need a hall-pass to go to the restroom? Signed a Swede who spent an exchange year in Texan upper middle class suburban public high school.

When I tell people that Finnish middle schools don’t have bells and the kids just go places when they need to they look at me in disbelief. Kids live up to the expectations they are given. The patronizing nature of the American education system is one of the reasons why people here have such a hard time taking personal responsibility for things in my opinion.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#337

Post by werber »

baby wrote: post #147
LargeWu wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

Heh. That’s the US college experience. College in France is not that fun. You mostly go to class and then go home. I met most of my friends outside of campus during student organized events, so the only benefit was that I was living in a student town where people moved to to go to its university, but the university itself was eventless.

I wanted to study abroad when I was in undegrad and couldn't afford it, I opted to take courses at a French university instead. I highly recommend going that route for anyone college aged. I spent less money then I would have at my University in the US for the same time and it was a level of exposure (and frankly, discomfort, that I really grew from) that I don't think my more well off friends got from similar study abroad programs with mostly english speaking peers.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#338

Post by sebmellen »

netcan wrote: post #322
beaner wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in the distinction you're making, I just think that many of the degree programs for these older subjects are effectively acting as "diploma mills" today because their result for the student is about the same.

I guess you're right. In practice, a lot of people are just putting one foot in front of another, much of the time. Myself included, probably. At least humanities courses teach students to write. They're basically essay writing classes.

I'm not sure about that. Have you read the writing of a recent college grad? I worked with two on a project some time ago, one with a BA in English and another who dropped out of a Mathematics degree.

The one who'd dropped out was clearer and more consistent in their writing than the BA in English. Perhaps math enforces a level of pragmatism that the humanities don't?

Anecdotal, of course, but I've seen this pattern often.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#339

Post by IdiocyInAction »

holden_nelson wrote: post #334
triceratops wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades are tough on the body. A job-related injury can leave you unable to work. It seems like a rational choice to make the same amount of money typing on a computer, especially in a country lacking a significant social net.

Sitting and typing at a computer all day isn't particularly healthy either, for what it's worth. I do recognize that standing desks can mitigate this, but it's even tough on the wrists.

Several of my family members work in the trades. The level of damage done to their bodies is way higher than any desk job and you can at least somewhat mitigate the damage in a desk job. My cousin is a bricklayer and has severe medical problems in his 30s (though he does earn more than me).

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#340

Post by hinkley »

ausbah wrote: post #324
hinkley wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently trying to convince a friend with teenagers that the 'going away' part of 'going away to college' is part of the entire point. Keeping your kid in town is just infantilizing them. And god knows we have enough enfants terribles in the world, and especially in tech. She's going to end up with a 28 year old son still living at home playing video games all day, while his degree rots away, wondering what wen…

sorry, but this is wildly out of touch. going to a local university while living at home is not infantilizing anyone. it is a very financially smart and sensible plan that meets the needs for many people's goals in life. balancing classes, extracurriculars, a job, and other college activities that don't depend on your living situation is more than enough of sampling what "adulting" is like not everyone needs to, or c…

There's a huge financial difference between going to school at a better school in-state than going out of state. I went to school an hour from home.

And if we're going to talk about out of touch, I'm not sure where you're from where you think everyone who goes to school has a university in the same town as them, let alone with the degree program they want to attend. Changing your degree to one that's 'good enough' so you can stay in town? That's setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment.

As far as I've heard, parking on campus at my alma mater is even worse than when I attended, so being 10 minutes off campus is more conceptual than factual. It's probably true that Uber is far cheaper than a dorm, even if you averaged 3 rides a day, especially these days, but there are loads of semi-spontaneous interactions that become stilted when you have to worry about getting back and forth across town. It's not doing your own laundry, it's the people you meet while doing your laundry.

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