Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 1001 posts

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#331

Post by JohnTClark »

bleepblorp wrote: post #209
paxys wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed with you 20 years ago, but China is now the second largest economy in the world, and on track to becoming the largest. Combine that with its gross domestic human rights violations, censorship, IP theft, and expansionist foreign policy (looking at the South China Sea, NE India, SE Asia, Africa etc.), and they aren't getting any sympathy from me.

The Chinese government isn't made up of nice people by any stretch but it's vitally important to understand their position so as to avoid escalation, possibly into armed conflict in future decades. They have every reason to view the survival of their tech sector as a vital economic security interest. Confiscating the value of their foreign tech assets without cause, or legitimate due process, will not make the Chines…

So what is the other option? We stay in the abusive relationship just out of fear of confrontation? How about we take care of our interests and if cold war starts we make sure we win it.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#332

Post by Udik »

bleepblorp wrote: post #164
paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

It's pretty much impossible for lower-income countries to develop economically without protecting their emerging businesses from being slaughtered by established foreign competition. The priority of the Chinese government is the benefit of its citizens (leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens, as this is a separate issue) and its domestic economy, not the benefit of…

> leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens

Is that actually true? China seems to be even using affirmative action to benefit its minorities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#333

Post by dodobirdlord »

peteretep wrote: post #110
thewarrior wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China never forced US companies to sell their investments in China at firesale prices. This is not a proportionate response.

Why do you believe it has to be firesale prices? Has intra-firm competition in the US for assets suddenly disappeared?

45 days is not a lot of time as these things go. It's hard to imagine that most companies could organize something like this in so little time.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#334

Post by casefields »

voisin wrote: post #25

Is there any precedent for a president to do such a thing? I am completely astonished and dumbstruck that everyone is ok with this.

>That happened in 2012, the only legal challenge to CFIUS since it was established in 1975, when Chinese-based Sany Group’s affiliate Ralls Corp. bought wind farms in Oregon. Then- President Barack Obama ordered Ralls to not only divest the wind farms, but also forced it to remove items added to the facilities, including concrete foundation, and barred employee access to the premises. Sany complied.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tiktok-trump-breaking...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#335

Post by dodobirdlord »

rapsey wrote: post #271
Sangama34 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tomorrow this exact mumbo jumbo will be used against "California" companies and "New York" companies.

By the Chinese? They have been strong arming western companies for decades. The price of doing business in China has always been severe.

No, the implication is that this would be done by Trump.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#336

Post by yegle »

rsecora wrote: post #265
yegle wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great firewall of China does block email. If your email address is blocked 1. When you send an email to a recipient in China who is using an email service provider whose MTA does not support SSL/TLS/STARTTLS: the delivery attempt by your email service provider will result in a TCP reset. 2. Similarly, if someone in China want to send an email to your blocked email address but their MTA doesn't support SSL/TLS/STA…

And if you can reach the MTA, that means the email itself is unencrypted. So the MTA can monitor the email content.

This goes both ways. If I want to send an email to someone but their MTA doesn't do encryption, I might choose to encrypt the content of my email, but I have no way to hide my FROM.

Blocking the MTA server is not unheard of.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#337

Post by donw »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

The US lost that near-monopoly years ago.

Broadly speaking, I think we're witnessing the birth of three distinct global powers.

One is centered on the US, and consists (broadly) of Canada, Mexico, the rest of Latin America, the Commonwealth nations, Japan, Korea, Israel, and Taiwan.

An American civil war would destabilize this to a large degree, so we'll have to see if that plays out.

Edit, since people seem confused: This would be an absolute nightmare scenario, but it is in the realm of possibility, and would massively change international political structures.

Another is centered on Germany and France, and controls Europe, parts of Africa, and the Middle East.

Finally, we've got China, which will likely control a big chunk of Africa and Southeast Asia.

Russia is a tough one, but I see them siding with China or Europe.

Contested territory will include Taiwan, bits of the Middle East, and an escalation of the border disputes with Japan. Likely bits of eastern Europe, plus conflicts on the China/India border...

What a time to be alive.

Edit: Just because somebody says that something is a possibility doesn't mean that they want that thing to happen.

Me coming down with a case of COVID is a possibility. In fact, I'm operating under the assumption that I will be infected at some point, regardless of precautions (masks, hand-washing, stepping back from my competitive doorknob-licking career, etc.)

That doesn't mean I want a case of Horribly Shitty Virus With Not-Yet Well-Documented Complications.

I'm just prepared for the worst (as best as I can), and hoping for the best (because why not?)

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#338

Post by secondcoming »

bmitc wrote: post #238
logicslave12 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumbstruck that we wouldn’t allow an adversarial country collect data on all of our citizens locations? And potentially more?

It isn't the country directly collecting and analyzing data. It is a company. Chinese companies are required to share data, but so are U.S. companies. If we focus on the companies, why is okay that U.S. companies are able to collect nearly arbitrary data on all U.S. citizens and participate in propaganda?

It's easy... Chinese companies that operate internationally are controlled by the CCP.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#340

Post by [deleted] »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #330
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #310

For WeChat, how much impact will this have on Americans? As an American, I tried signing up to communicate w/ someone in China, and I couldn't get through the verification process. Obviously TikTok has a big USA presence.

> As an American, I tried signing up to communicate w/ someone in China, and I couldn't get through the verification process. I signed up before there was a verification process. But my understanding is that you get vouched for by an existing account. Since you were signing up to communicate with someone, wouldn't that person have been a natural choice to verify you?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN