Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#331

Post by Shalle135 » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

In Stockholm it’s really common to jaywalk. There is a law against it, but there is no punishment unless you caused a dangerous situation so you’re not going to get stopped by the cops for doing so.

Also I was quite suprised the first time I heard of it being on to run a red light if you’re turning right. This is not legal AFAIK in all of Scandinavia nor the majority of Europe.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#332

Post by andrepd » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

testplzignore wrote: post #211

alistairSH wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.

Where I live in the US, my understanding is that pedestrians always have the right of way at intersections (regardless of whether there are any traffic or pedestrian signals) unless: 1. There is a pedestrian signal that says to NOT cross, or 2. The traffic signal going in the direction the pedestrian is walking is red. So if the light is green and the pedestrian signal does not say to not cross, then the pedestrian h…

In the UK pedestrians do not have the right of way unless at a traffic light crossing or in the rare zebra crosswalks. That was rather a culture shock for me.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#333

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

nagash wrote: post #175

Here in Perth, Western Australia we have quite reasonable pedestrian right of way laws. But if you read the recommendations, you will notice the language talks about how it's basically still on you to not die. For example, pedestrians have right of way when crossing a street where a car may be turning in to, so there should really be no need to check across your shoulder for traffic. Most drivers don't seem aware of…

>But if you read the recommendations, you will notice the language talks about how it's basically still on you to not die.

Yes, because in a fight with a ton of metal, you will always lose. Of course you need to be careful around moving vehicles...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#334

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

GavinMcG wrote: post #311

In contrast, the US had over 40,000 traffic deaths in each of 2016, 2017, and 2018. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-13/traffic-d...

Comparing a population of ~329M to a city of 1M seems a bit silly. Scale that and you get 121 deaths / million. That's unfair the other way as we're comparing conditions a large city rural areas of the US as well, but since we began with a silly comparison I'm not sure how we fix it without starting over.

In Austin TX, population ~1M, we had 74 vehicle related fatalities in 2018.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#335

Post by Tiktaalik » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

mongol wrote: post #2

That is amazing. It is easy to imagine that safer cars have contributed most to this. But there are so many other factors.. emergency response, alcohol, road quality, weather... I wonder how it would break down, if it was possible to measure it all.

Safer cars how? Cars are just as safe in NA where we rack up the pedestrian deaths.

The two ton vehicle slamming into a pedestrian at medium speeds will probably kill them.

The only way to solve this problem is to lower speeds or remove the car from the road.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#336

Post by brewdad » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

elweston2 wrote: post #296

tehwalrus wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited the USA for a conference, I looked up a nice coffee place that was just across the street from the academic campus where I was staying. I went to the nearest crossing point, waited for several cycles of the traffic lights, and still couldn't deduce when it was safe to cross. The road markings were black and white stripes, which mean "cars must always stop for pedestrians crossing here" where I live (UK…

It varies from state to state and city to city. Some have the very regulation you are talking about. I have never seen it enforced. In your case if there was no indicator light. Then you could go for it when the traffic was going in the same direction as you or when clear from the other direction. The general rule of thumb is from any corner you can cross. That does not mean you get to stop traffic to do so. Though i…

I don't get this. You acknowledge that they have right of way. You have apparently had plenty of time to stop and have done so. Yet you insist on honking at them as if they did something wrong?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#337

Post by Tiktaalik » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

punnerud wrote: post #272

I am living in Oslo and just came driving from the city center now, not strange when it is almost impossible to drive around there, lot of light regulation (no turn right on red as in US). Even with socioeconomic value on human life in the $10M range I don’t think it is economically beneficial to the city center. The ‘no children died’ in 2019 is something else and a really good thing!

> Even with socioeconomic value on human life in the $10M range I don’t think it is economically beneficial to the city center.

This is a psycho statement honestly reevaluate your values.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#338

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #307

audunw wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody complained because why would you want to walk miles to the closest grocery store anyway? I've been guests at a few different suburban neighborhoods in the US. I realize that some of these are so big and remote that it really is too far to walk to anything significant, but those I visited did have grocery stores and such within a walkeable distance, but that's not always the case, and still there's not much i…

> I'm really astonished that Americans don't do it the same way. Americans tend to have strange ideas about walking. If they think about it at all, they tend to think of it as something that's only done in extremis. I've discovered, for example, that, when I travel for work, it's generally useless to ask hotel staff if they can recommend any restaurants "within walking distance" when I'm staying in a suburban area. T…

Is that rue of all "Americans" (U.S. citizens) or is it just specific kins off places, like some suburbs? I have seen plenty of footage of people walking around large US cities. And what about rural places? Surely theree's nothing stopping people from taking long walks on the countryside if they live out in the boondocks, etc?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#339

Post by skripp » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #219

testplzignore wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in the US, my understanding is that pedestrians always have the right of way at intersections (regardless of whether there are any traffic or pedestrian signals) unless: 1. There is a pedestrian signal that says to NOT cross, or 2. The traffic signal going in the direction the pedestrian is walking is red. So if the light is green and the pedestrian signal does not say to not cross, then the pedestrian h…

The problem I've seen is that (especially in suburbs where pedestrians are rarer) drivers don't check for pedestrians. Almost every time I'm walking for any length of time I nearly get hit by a car that assumes that a green light means they're free to turn right without any restrictions. This isn't me intentionally creating an unsafe situation (often I'm already in the intersection), it's drivers who see so few pedes…

This is anecdotal evidence, but I moved from a european town of 200 000 to a mega-city of 20 000 000 and I've seen far fewer incidents here during the last 5 years than the first 30 in my old hometown combined.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#340

Post by caiocaiocaio » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

yason wrote: post #80

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

Where I live (Victoria BC), we don't have many pedestrian lights, but pedestrians definitely do not have priority in crosswalks.

Pedestrians here make sure that there are definitely no cars moving anywhere near the crosswalk, and no one potentially wanting to make a left turn, before venturing out.