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Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

nytimes.com

331–340 of 489 posts

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not out-dated dude. In a different post from you, you're quoting the National Observer which I've never heard of. In Wikipedia's entry it says this: "According to an article by Vivian Krause in the Financial Post, the National Observer has received funding from The Tides Foundation of San Francisco, and Linda Solomon Wood is the sister of a former chairman of the Tides Foundation. Terence Corcoran in the Nat…

I can't reply under your reply. >imported means only 25% of _all of Canadian_ oil is imported Yes! 25% of Canadian oil is imported! Don't know why wrote "only". An oil rich country gets 1/4 of it's oil from elsewhere, including Saudi and apparently Azerbaijan. Anyway, HN reply mechanism is nudging me to move on from this discussion, so I will.

[deleted]

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not out-dated dude. In a different post from you, you're quoting the National Observer which I've never heard of. In Wikipedia's entry it says this: "According to an article by Vivian Krause in the Financial Post, the National Observer has received funding from The Tides Foundation of San Francisco, and Linda Solomon Wood is the sister of a former chairman of the Tides Foundation. Terence Corcoran in the Nat…

Come. On. Read what you just posted. It does not disagree with the article I posted. 108.8 million tonnes of crude vs 29.1 tonnes imported means only 25% of _all of Canadian_ oil is imported, and of that 65% of it is from the U.S., not Saudi. By your own quoted numbers only 5% of Canadian crude comes from Saudi Arabia. (20% of 29.1 = 5.82 million barrels, 5.82 million barrels out of 108 million barrels is 5.3%) The C…

Even if you accept your argument, as you pointed out, a pipeline (Line 9) helped the situation.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#333
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming in 2021, the electric Ford F-150.[1] That should be a great truck. Empty pickups have poor weight distribution; not enough weight in back. With a giant battery pack under the pickup bed, traction is better. [1] https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg

Plus, no propshaft or exhaust to get hung up on things, and you can get the CoG lower, improving handling. Plus, a level of traction control that simply isn't possible with ICE. I'm excited.

Plus, electric motors have flat torque curves, while ICEs need to get up to a certain RPM before you start getting decent torque. That means you get maximum acceleration and hauling power from the get-go.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-pr...

(This incidentally is part of why Tesla started with the Roadster - the flat torque curve of an electric motor can give some great acceleration numbers, which is pretty nifty when you're building a status-symbol sports car.)

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are pick-ups so popular? I can understand if you are a construction worker, farmer, etc. that actually needs a pickup truck; but why are they so popular for other people? The vast majority of pickup trucks I see have beds that are so clean that it is obvious that has never been used to haul even one bag of cement or load of dirt.

Because the pickup truck form factor is the most efficient and inexpensive one there is. No really, hear me out! I see this asked all the time, but you're actually asking the wrong question. I mean, think about it, what's the most minimal, lightest, cheapest form a motor vehicle could possibly take? It would have wheels, of course, some sort of frame to attach everything to, somewhere to put the engine, and somewhere…

Interesting perspective. If we control for size and stick with basic principles, does converting a hatchback to a pickup provide more gain from the lower weight than losses from inferior aerodynamics? I'm not convinced it does.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#335
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are pick-ups so popular? I can understand if you are a construction worker, farmer, etc. that actually needs a pickup truck; but why are they so popular for other people? The vast majority of pickup trucks I see have beds that are so clean that it is obvious that has never been used to haul even one bag of cement or load of dirt.

In the South (especially in Texas, where I lived for a bit) they're considered a symbol of rugged manliness, which is the main reason why they're so popular among city dwellers. They're also nice to go off-road in areas with not good roads. I've driven a few and they also offer a different perspective when you're driving (you feel "taller"). Also, they might be safer than tiny sedans (although not sure how they compa…

Here are some points about pickups that appeal to me and maybe to others:

(1) Bumpers. Pickup trucks (PUTs) tend to have actual, steel bumpers (often chrome plated which indicates that they are steel), both front and rear. Passenger cars have, instead, plastic over some structures for crumple zones or some such. So, if run into something, say, a deer crossing the road in the middle of the night, then are better off with the bumpers; the plastic and crumple zone is less rugged and more subject to expensive damage. Bumpers can be useful otherwise, say, wrap and hook on with a steel cable and pull or be pulled.

(2) Passenger cars emphasize smooth ride. So, the springs and shocks tend to be soft. On PUTs, the springs and shocks are stiff enough to do well carrying heavy loads over rough ground. So, (i) the springs on both passenger cars and PUTs are usually spring steel with a not very long fatigue life, say, under 100,000 miles. Having the springs suffer from metal fatigue and sag is a bummer. The stiffer springs in a PUT flex less and so fatigue less and even when fatigued still have enough stiffness not to sage. (ii) Over rough surfaces, soft springs and shocks more easily bounce around and bottom out -- not good.

(3) In addition to the springs, PUTs have suspensions better able to take loads and bumps and, thus, last longer. E.g., in the front, passenger cars, again, emphasizing smooth ride, have soft suspension bushings, soft stabilizer bars and mounts for them, soft shocks, and struts instead of just A-frames -- the PUT suspensions last longer. In the rear the PUTs have leaf springs with extra leaves for heavy loads instead of coil springs common in passenger cars -- the stiff leaf springs last longer before sagging or actually breaking than the soft coil springs.

(4) PUTs have more ground clearance. So, e.g., if there is a traffic jam, when in a PUT might just head for a curb or a ditch, cross some rough ground, head in a different direction, and avoid the jam. At times extra ground clearance is darned nice to have.

(5) To exaggerate, PUTs are for people in work clothes with mud on their shoes, and passenger cars are for suits and evening gowns with spotless shoes. More generally the interiors of PUTs are more rugged, aimed at utility instead of luxury.

(6) PUT brakes have to be strong enough to stop the truck when it also has a big load, say, 1000+ pounds. This means that with light loads, the brakes will last longer.

(7) PUTs have more head room in the door openings and the interiors. Tall people have an easier time getting in and out.

(8) PUTs are commonly well designed for towing; for most passenger cars, towing is less advisable. Towing requires, yes, a trailer hitch but also connections for lights and maybe brakes on the trailer, a stronger transmission, a larger engine radiator, etc.

(9) A lot of small passenger cars have front wheel drive, and PUTs have rear wheel drive as the main drive with a solid axle which mechanically simpler, more rugged, and lasts longer.

In short, PUTs emphasize utility and passenger cars, luxury.

Similarly much of the US is big on blue jeans -- utility over luxury. Blue jeans are made of essentially the same canvas that was used for sails on sailing ships and, thus, is one of the toughest cotton fabric weaves there is; the seam sewing is very strong, and some stress points have brass rivets.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#336

Demand for oil&gas will continue to grow for a long time due to: - SUV/pick-up boom (America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series!) and more cars + trucks in countries like Brazil, India, China, Indonesia - crazy growth in air travel (look at order numbers of Airbus, see how many airports are under construction, see miles traveled via plane) - simultaneous shift away from coal+ nuclear, giving a huge boost t…

Why are pick-ups so popular? I can understand if you are a construction worker, farmer, etc. that actually needs a pickup truck; but why are they so popular for other people? The vast majority of pickup trucks I see have beds that are so clean that it is obvious that has never been used to haul even one bag of cement or load of dirt.

> construction worker, farmer, etc. that actually needs a pickup truck

I take it you don't own a pickup.

Try owning one and it will surprise you how many friends, co-workers, etc. will come out of the woodwork and show you reasons why you/they need one.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect part of the reason is utility vs cost of ownership. You can commute in a pickup but you can't move an apartment in a Prius (well not in one trip :-). If you look at the marginal cost of a second vehicle[1] it is quite high. Thus you may be limited to owning exactly one vehicle, and that vehicle is going to consume a chunk of your income (insurance/gas/maintenance). In that scenario the most financially prude…

I've heard this argument before but can't really make sense of it. Moving apartments and similar activities are (a) rare; (b) can't be done in a pickup anyway - I'd need to rent a much larger truck; and (c) renting a proper truck every time I moved and will move apartments/houses in my whole life is cheaper than the cost difference between a pickup and a smaller car, especially as fuel is a huge part of total cost of…

I understand this sentiment, it doesn't persuade me either (but I am also in a situation that allows me to own multiple vehicles).

That said, my experience is primarily anecedotal; people I know who own only a truck, dealers who are selling trucks, and various reader survey type "Why buy a truck" articles that show up in the popular press like Popular Mechanics or Car & Driver from time to time.

You have focused on the actual need versus the perceived need. The aforementioned dealers are big on selling the "unknown future need" and the fear of finding yourself in a position where having the truck would solve your problem but you don't have one.

Like your argument above, I tend to be much more analytical in my purchases and so I like to believe I am not influenced as strongly by the "what if ..." arguments. (It must have some effect since I don't own a pickup truck at the moment :-). I have also learned, that precision thinking isn't always the dominant force in a lot of buyers making buying decisions. I encourage anyone thinking about this question to talk to truck owners and ask them what they were thinking when they bought their truck and how much of how they anticipated using it was something they actually did post purchase.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#338

Demand for oil&gas will continue to grow for a long time due to: - SUV/pick-up boom (America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series!) and more cars + trucks in countries like Brazil, India, China, Indonesia - crazy growth in air travel (look at order numbers of Airbus, see how many airports are under construction, see miles traveled via plane) - simultaneous shift away from coal+ nuclear, giving a huge boost t…

Why are pick-ups so popular? I can understand if you are a construction worker, farmer, etc. that actually needs a pickup truck; but why are they so popular for other people? The vast majority of pickup trucks I see have beds that are so clean that it is obvious that has never been used to haul even one bag of cement or load of dirt.

Pickup trucks are popular because they're almost the right vehicle for any occasion. There's a lot of variation within any named truck model to get you closer to what you might normally need a vehicle for.

If you regularly have up to 5 people in your vehicle, get an extra cab. If it's usually just you, a regular cab works (if you can find one). If you need 6 or more people, you could put seats in the bed, but probably get a van.

If you want to occasional carry large items, but save gas otherwise, get a small engine; a compact truck with a 4-cylinder is no prius, but should be better than CAFE average. If you're towing a boat every weekend, stronger engine options are available.

Maintenance is generally easier than on a modern sedan because things are more accessible. And parts are easier to find because model generations are longer and some parts work for multiple generations. Tires are often more expensive though.

If you want butt warmers and leather everything, that's an option too.

And then you have things like visibility advantages due to ride height and a big, unobstructed rear window (at least for a regular cab).

It's also amazingly easy to clean the bed, if you care. Park on a hill, open the gate, spray water at the top until it runs clean. Or wait for a rain.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#339
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, no propshaft or exhaust to get hung up on things, and you can get the CoG lower, improving handling. Plus, a level of traction control that simply isn't possible with ICE. I'm excited.

Plus, electric motors have flat torque curves, while ICEs need to get up to a certain RPM before you start getting decent torque. That means you get maximum acceleration and hauling power from the get-go. https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-pr... (This incidentally is part of why Tesla started with the Roadster - the flat torque curve of an electric motor can give some great acceleration numbers…

This!!! I've told everyone who'd listen for years that an electric motor is the better option for a pickup trucks due to the more appropriate matching of the torque curve to the hauling load demands.

When my beloved '00 Ram 1500 died about 5 years ago I decided to hold out for an electric truck that I assumed would be coming to market. Looks like I may finally get my chance shortly. I honestly don't know if the cumulative environmental footprint is better, but I do know an electric motor will be superior.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#340

Demand for oil&gas will continue to grow for a long time due to: - SUV/pick-up boom (America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series!) and more cars + trucks in countries like Brazil, India, China, Indonesia - crazy growth in air travel (look at order numbers of Airbus, see how many airports are under construction, see miles traveled via plane) - simultaneous shift away from coal+ nuclear, giving a huge boost t…

Shouldn't prices on electric cars fall enough eventually to produce affordable electric SUVs and pick-ups? Or that's too much into the future still?
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