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I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

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Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#331
Just talked to someone at Airbnb. Two takeaways:

1. If the property does not match the description, take pictures (they won't just take your word for it).

2. If you are told that the original property is not available, contact Airbnb right away, and they will give you a full refund and help you find a place to stay (Airbnb or otherwise).

Fortunately, I've never had to put any of this to the test...

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#332
I used to be a big AirBnB fan but they've really gone downhill. I've been denied refunds. So many places have false advertising.

I'll go back on AirBnb or whatever new platform that gives a 3d reconstruction of the actual place, and the actual sleeping quarters.

The wide angle heavily photoshopped pictures that Airbnb encourage make it extremely hard to know if the place is worth it or not.

And then there's the hidden cleaning fees which could be 100s of dollars. They don't show up on the initial search. The numbers are all towards making it seem cheap but being quite expensive at the end.

AirBnb uses a number of dark patterns on their site and I hate it. I just don't think they are an ethical company who have the customer's focus in mind.

I understand though, they gotta recoup their billions of dollars of VC funding.

I'd rather go for a hotel that I know provides consistent experience every single time.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#333
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is because evolving further in those areas inevitably could expose AirBnB to information they are happy to be ignorant of / responsible for. A lot of tech companies, including AirBnB operate by passing risk / responsibility off onto everyone else (the host, the customer) and thus saving AirBnB a great deal of time / money.

>A lot of tech companies, including AirBnB operate by passing risk / responsibility off onto everyone else (the host, the customer) and thus saving AirBnB a great deal of time / money. That's what I've never understood. When uber got big, their argument was "we're not a cab company, so we don't have to work under the same regulations". Yes you are. You use an app instead of a radio dispatch. That's the difference bet…

I'm imagining a future where a "we're not a garbage company" starts dumping garbage randomly... and they say we're supposed to blame their contractors.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, fraud like this is exactly what chargebacks are for. Companies don't listen to anything but money. AirBNB counts on you being a pushover and not disputing the charge. I don't understand this "Well they charged my credit card so there's nothing I can do!" attitude.

Just be aware that a chargeback is an instant bridge-igniter with the company or platform you’re filing it against, most considering it a breach of the TOS and banning your account.

Who cares what a company trying to defraud you thinks about you taking action against it? Really.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#335
The late cancellation by host without no specific penalties seems to be one of the most prevalent yet disturbing elements in this.

The one who's travelling has the weakest odds of all. The traveler will be in a foreign place with no place to stay. In contrast, the host has no losing cards except some income. The rules should, thus, have been written to protect the traveler at the expense of the host because the host can take more hits from bad luck than the traveler.

If the host really needs to cancel they should have to put the traveler in a real hotel as an upgrade to remove all doubt of the traveler getting into a place that could be worse. They have already received the money from the traveler so they only need to pay for the difference. Just cancelling late without any particular reason could be done but at a very high cost. And if the host's place did burn down for real then a few hundred extra to pay for the guest's hotel for a few nights will surely be a negligent cost.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#336
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a refund in either of those cases so much as a place to stay that matches my requirements NOW. (good customer service says the replacement will be better, hotels try to reserve their best suites until last just to ensure that they have the better room around just in case). I'm some new city and I want to get my family to sleep...

To me it sounds as if you are saying "I want the charm\location\social experience of staying with a local resident AND I want the convenience/professionalism/capital resources of the hotel industry AND I don't want to pay for the convenience/professionalism/capital resources of a hotel." As with software, pick two.

Airbnb has functionally became where it is expected to get the latter two. When I've used Airbnb I have never expected nor cared about the "charm" or the "local resident", it's been a de-facto hotel. If there was a problem, of course I would expect Airbnb to do their job. Why wouldn't you?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#337
Bear with me there is a point to my preamble... So in the UK if you buy a train ticket and the train is late and as a result you miss a connection to, say, a ferry then the train company is obliged to put you right. For example, by putting you up in a hotel until you can take the next ferry or finding another way for you to continue your journey so you don't miss the ferry. I once had a free 100 mile taxi journey because the train was late and I was going to miss my connection which would have required an overnight stay.

I am not a lawyer (also this is UK law) but I would be really interested for a lawyer to comment on this, because my understanding is that the reason they do this is because the train timetable is an 'invitation to treat' on which you based your decision to enter into a contract with them by purchasing a ticket to transport you from A to B. If they fail to do this in a timely fashion as advertised on the timetable, such that your journey with them is wasted, this is a breach of contract and contract law says that because they failed to honour the contract, they have to, as close as possible, put you back in the position you were in if you had not entered into the contract with them. They can not get out of this with T&Cs because its a basic principal that if you offer one thing obviously and then say the opposite hidden in the small print, the more prominent offer is what you are held to.

In this case (again, remember I am not a lawyer but on the assumption that the same basic principals were to apply) my theory is that the problem is AirBNB's to resolve because the contract would be between me and AirBNB because the money changed hands between me and AirBNB. So if AirBNB advertised 3 nights in a city for £1500, I paid this and then I arrive and the host cancels my reservation at the last minute, after I have expended considerable time and expense already with the expectation that I have accommodation, I would ignore the host and contact AirBNB directly because I paid them the full cost of the booking and the fact that they subcontracted the actual service to someone else is none of my business, it is ultimately their problem to make sure the contract is honoured by putting me up in another equivalent place or by providing a full refund and paying any additional costs involved in me staying in the closest equivalent place available.

So I wonder, if they don't do this within a reasonable time, could I stay somewhere else and then file small claims court case against them for the cost? If the 1/3rd refund thing from another comment had happened to me I would certainly be tempted to try it to get £1000 + hotel bills back + cost of my time to prepare evidence for the claim at my standard hourly rate.

I have experienced one or two situations where companies have tried to rip me off and taking 30mins to tell them in writing that I will claim, how I will do it, what my grounds for the claim are and how much it will cost them has got them to back down and agree a refund and compensation before I got anywhere near having to fill out the online form for the small claims court, which is apparently not a big deal anyway. No idea if I would have won or how much time and cost is involved though... In general, if people would stick up for their rights more, then the costs of shady business practices like this would make them unprofitable.

Could be a great business idea for an online lawyering startup, like those that exist for flight compensation claims.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you continue to give airbnb your business, once experiencing something like that anyways?

Because the expected value of using the platform is still greater despite the known risks?

over $1000 lost is still greater value?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#339
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stayed at 22 airbnb's 11 were fine. 11 had issues most with false advertising in some form or another. One listed the wrong location and if they had listed the correct location I would not have rented even though the room's interior matched. A few claimed to include onsite parking but didn't which of course is very inconvenient. The last one that did that claimed "Easy Street Parking" as AirBnb's blatant lie. I…

YC owns a tiny tiny piece of AirBnB. They definitely do not have any sort of power over the issues that you bring up.

The value of YC as an investor is not the cash they offer but the advice and guidance. As such their influence is disproportionate to their investment.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#340

I'm going on a 10-day vacation overseas at the end of this month. Given how infrequently I do big vacations (a personal issue I'm working to overcome), I have zero tolerance for surprises when it comes to my accommodations. I simply look for large and established four- or five-star hotels that have been around for a while and have numerous positive reviews across several web sites. Another hack I do is to use the "!m…

See, what you're experiencing is the transition to what we call traditionally, middle-age, I'm certain. And this isn't necessarily based on age, as much as mindset. There was a time, in my 20's, that I would drive out somewhere and 'just figure it out' once I got there. Even for work functions or conferences. Then AirBnB became a thing, and I was even more caution to the wind, because I can book ahead of time, but it…

yeah...I'm 36, married, 2 young kids..taking the family for a vacation over Christmas. This article basically convinced me to book a hotel instead of an AirBNB.

I have not had a bad experience w/ AirBnB when it was just my wife and I travelling, but I can't subject my kids to sleeping overnight in a dump - or supporting a company that does not actively address these issues.

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