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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#331

Post by turtlecloud »

jjeaff wrote: post #136
belltaco wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good post. I hope they do release the statistics of how often cameras fail at that facility. Two cameras failing in the same time widow feels very unlikely to me unless they're using some really bad ones, which won't surprise me. Would still like to know how that happened.

Sure, two cameras failing at the same time right before he incident seems very suspicious. But is that the case? Seems more likely both cameras were broken and had been for a long time and were never fixed. How many other cameras in the facility were broken? If cameras are broken, how would you ever learn that they are broken? Perhaps it would require an important event like a suicide to occur so that you would need…

most likely the power line to the cameras were cut or interfered with. They should both be on the same network and it should not be difficult to disable if knowing about the security system before hand.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#332

Post by jonplackett »

thrower123 wrote: post #285
code_duck wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some speculation that he maintained his operational security, such as it was, through the threat of exposure or blackmail. That is, he brought prominent and powerful people into his fold, and then he had power over them. It's similar to how spy organizations intentionally place people in compromising situations, like hiring prostitutes for them, and record it on video.

I cannot believe that he didn't have a deadman switch set up just in case something like this happened to him. Somewhere or wheres, there has to be a couple boxes of hard drives that could burn the world down if they ever came to light. Although I may be being optimistic; the Panama Papers never amounted to anything.

Yeah, like maybe he has a voice recording of the president saying he likes to grab women by the pussy without their consent...

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#333

Post by amiga_500 »

claudeganon wrote: post #36

Epstein’s death seems the most overt taunt about ruling class impunity in my lifetime. Not only in its circumstances, but in the kind of shifting, threadbare cover stories about everyone with whom he was associated. Bill Gates, for example, had staff overlap between his foundation and Epstein, (including one who was named in Epstein’s will!) and was able to diminish these connections in major media outlets with almos…

This is the important time for power. Exercising power in the background, when nobody realises it's happening, is useful.

But when your power base is threatened, when you are wide open and people feel you could go under. That's when you can exhibit that power. When you step forward and pronounce that black is white, and all the press and the politicians nod in agreement.

This entrenches their power. Nobody called them out.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#334

Post by Semaphor »

blackrobot wrote: post #133
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paraphrase Watchmen I think we can take Gates off the list of suspects, it just doesn't seem his style.

He may not be a suspect , but it is troubling when someone befriends a known pedophile: Mr. Gates started the relationship after Mr. Epstein was convicted of sex crimes. from the NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...

OT maybe, but I wish people would stop using pedophile as if it were a crime.

> Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. [0]

The problem and crime is, when those people act on those attractions and the way society reacts to pedophiles is certainly not helping anyone and I’d assume hindering some of them from seeking or even receiving help.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#335

Post by CharlesColeman »

shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #329
Teever wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting comment that I've seen repeated and voted to the top of any post on reddit regarding the Gates-Epstein association is something along the lines of 'Gates is too aloof and nerdy to be interested in the wares that Epstein was peddling.' I've seen it many times and it has always struck me as the kind of spin that PR firm would write and disseminate.

If you see people expressing an opinion that’s useful for the rich and powerful, it’s appealing to imagine that the people expressing that opinion are shills. But I think saying such out loud lowers the quality of discourse. If we go around accusing one people we disagree with of being shills, we aren’t learning or participating in an exchange of ideas, which is the point of a discussion forum like this. There’s a pe…

There's a middle ground between shills and honest sincerely held beliefs: that of the useful idiot [1]. Those are people who have been manipulated by real shills to sincerely advocate for the shill's ideas. Real shills usually don't have the resources get the results they want on their own, so their goal is to create useful idiots to magnify their efforts.

It's not necessarily relevant to this case, and I agree that calling those people out as such lowers the quality of discourse, but I think it's something important to keep in mind.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#336

Post by amiga_500 »

neom wrote: post #283
blackrobot wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may not be a suspect , but it is troubling when someone befriends a known pedophile: Mr. Gates started the relationship after Mr. Epstein was convicted of sex crimes. from the NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...

I have a close relative who is a pedophile. I still give them my time. Don't underestimate human compassion, regardless of your value judgement on it.

Is Gates a close relative of Epstein? Did your relative serve his time?

If so then your example has nothing to lend.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#337

Post by lazyasciiart »

slimed wrote: post #316
lazyasciiart wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convicted terrorists have said that Gitmo and warzones are better than this place. It's also very used to "high profile" prisoners, like El Chapo and accused terrorists picked up in Somalia and transferred back here.

You're right. They are used to it. They're also used to preventing suicides. There has only been one other successful suicide in that facility in the four decades it has existed. Why now? Coincidence?

Because he is the 20th prisoner in federal custody to commit suicide in a year? Because people routinely kill themselves even in supermax jails? Because 4-5 people attempt suicide in that prison every year and it'd be even more surprising if they were perfect at preventing it? Because they weren't allowed to hire new staff since Sessions froze hiring in 2017, until April, and their staffing levels went well down over that time?

Here's the story of a death, not suicide, in an equivalent facility in Chicago - Solebo. He wasn't taking his meds, and nobody knew because the blood samples they'd taken from him were contaminated. Coincidence? And although a judge had ordered twice, six months apart, that he be transferred for proper medical examinations, he wasn't. Coincidence? And every staff member with a medical license was on leave or away the day he was found dead. Coincidence? Does the federal DoC just actually fail that much in that many ways? Yes. All the time.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#338

Post by code_duck »

jonplackett wrote: post #332
thrower123 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot believe that he didn't have a deadman switch set up just in case something like this happened to him. Somewhere or wheres, there has to be a couple boxes of hard drives that could burn the world down if they ever came to light. Although I may be being optimistic; the Panama Papers never amounted to anything.

Yeah, like maybe he has a voice recording of the president saying he likes to grab women by the pussy without their consent...

More likely a video tape of someone grabbing an underage girl somewhere like that without their consent.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#339

Post by [deleted] »

shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #329
Teever wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting comment that I've seen repeated and voted to the top of any post on reddit regarding the Gates-Epstein association is something along the lines of 'Gates is too aloof and nerdy to be interested in the wares that Epstein was peddling.' I've seen it many times and it has always struck me as the kind of spin that PR firm would write and disseminate.

If you see people expressing an opinion that’s useful for the rich and powerful, it’s appealing to imagine that the people expressing that opinion are shills. But I think saying such out loud lowers the quality of discourse. If we go around accusing one people we disagree with of being shills, we aren’t learning or participating in an exchange of ideas, which is the point of a discussion forum like this. There’s a pe…

[deleted]

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#340

Post by topmonk »

malvosenior wrote: post #303
roenxi wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn't wrong; guilt by association is not a civilised concept. And if someone commits a crime then the courts determine an appropriate punishment and that is the end of what gets called 'wrong'. I'm on board if you don't want to talk to convicted paedophiles - seems reasonable to me - but being judgemental of someone else's relationships is not fair.

The absolute failure of the courts to enact justice in the Epstein case is a great example of why people should think for themselves and not outsource their sense of right and wrong to third parties. I personally do not believe that Gates (one of the most successful people to have ever lived) was naive enough to not know who and what Epstein was. I also see Gates' attempt to hide his relationship with Epstein as furt…

But that's mob justice. I'm not saying you're wrong, but failure of our courts can lead to extraordinarily bad times.
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