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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#331

Post by asdff »

hnarn wrote: post #242
SCAQTony wrote: post #208

Hey, remember those Amazon insiders that bought property on the cheap? "...Amazon employees are apparently eager to get a head start on the New York City real estate game. Condo sales in Long Island City are soaring following the announcement that the Queens, New York, [a] neighborhood will host part of Amazon's HQ2, The Wall Street Journal reports. According to The Journal, one brokerage firm sold 150 units in four…

It rarely happens, but it's always refreshing to see when real estate investment doesn't just equal free money.

LIC realty investment was free money even before amazon's announcements.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#332

Post by bokan »

jhall1468 wrote: post #181
legitster wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subsidies were very contingent on Amazon delivering all of their promised uplift. But I think people scoffed at the top-line best case subsidies. I forget where, but I remember seeing someone dig into the details of the offer and Amazon was not actually getting that much better of a deal than any other NYC business.

They were getting very near the same deal that any other company can get through a common tax-reduction program in NY. The difference was scale: 25k jobs was vastly, vastly more than any other company had used for this. The sheer number of people from NY saying they are "proud" of this shows just how far removed people are from reality.

If this is true (I don't know either way, I've only followed this casually), why go through the whole dog and pony show in the first place? In that case, Amazon seems to have shot themselves in the foot here by playing a carnival game with the campus selection process. They gave everyone the _appearance_ that they got a sweetheart deal while basically not getting anything special?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#333

Post by [deleted] »

magduf wrote: post #196
kokokokoko wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very different because a large amount of NYC residents rent as opposed to own. To a resident that rents in NYC, Amazon moving in means they will have higher rents and less money on their pocket. It ends up costing many NYC residents actual money in rent to host Amazon, regardless of the subsidy. I think this one is a special case.

I don't see the problem here at all. If you have higher rents, that's because there's more demand for housing, and not enough affordable new housing is being constructed. Who controls that? Your local politicians. Who controls them? The voters who elected them, which is you if you live there. So you have no one to blame but yourself, and no cause to complain. You have the government you deserve.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#334

Post by ianstallings »

RPLong wrote: post #223

I guess I didn't realize how many commentators here were New Yorkers. XD Everyone's moving to more comfortable places with lower costs of living. NYC is not an attractive place for job candidates unless those candidates are already in NYC. Even companies with a strong presence in NYC are expanding in places like Nashville, Omaha, Dallas, Denver, etc. rather than in NYC. At some point, New Yorkers ought to ask themsel…

Truth. I took a lower paying job in the midwest, and I can now save a lot more money, while also living a less stressful life. NYC is a really cool city and I enjoyed living there. But I "did my time".

I think more and more tech workers are going to wake up to the fact that while mega-city life can be cool, it's not the only way to live.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#335

Post by ctvo »

jlarocco wrote: post #306
jhall1468 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no way they are scaling up NY to the same degree they would have with the subsidies. There's no reason to. The value proposition is gone, so now Amazon will slow-roll growth in NY like they will any other office. The fact that you (and many others) consider this a win is an attempt to revise history. This tax deal was all about Amazon expanding very quickly. That deal is gone. But feel free to pat…

> This tax deal was all about Amazon expanding very quickly. Anybody who thinks that through should see why it's such a terrible idea. Not even NY can "very quickly" absorb 25k people in a small area without screwing up quality of life for the people who already live there. That's a great way to make real estate prices sky rocket and screw over the existing residents. And it'll completely screw up infrastructure and…

> "very quickly"

This was over a 10 year period. New York City would have absorbed this just fine. Population projections for the city over that same time span is an additional 600,000 people.

The "small area" that Amazon was relocating to (Queens) is expected to get 150,000 of those people. And we can ignore the assumption that people making 150k a year all want to live in Queens (or LIC) and not Manhattan.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#336

Post by Paul-ish »

jhall1468 wrote: post #235
specialp wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was primarily a deal to ease the regulatory burden of building such a big thing, I'd be all for it. Admittedly NY has an issue now with too many layers of bureaucracy. But this isn't entirely what it is about. It was also about large tax concessions when plenty of large companies are hiring tech in NYC without any of them. A skilled employee in NYC does not last very long at all on the job market. The 25k emplo…

Ugh... any company moving into NY can get these same large tax concessions. Amazon got nothing special outside of reduced regulatory burden. Why is this not understood? This same subsidy is now going to go to 15 companies who all probably pay less on average than Amazon. There are skilled workforces outside of NY, believe it or not. And they aren't going to go through the regulatory burdens to expand NY to a major ca…

> To be clear, since this point is being missed by so many people: This wasn't a special deal outside of the reduced regulatory burden. Any company that meets the eligibility requirements will get these exact same "subsidies".

Is there an article the explains this?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#337

Post by mc32 »

skh wrote: post #322
mc32 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but had it been published by a “bona fide filmmaker” they would have been okay. The repercussions may be wider than anticipated or liked, but the decision to not allow them to advertise and show it because it wasn’t by an established entity seems spurious.

It had nothing to do with whether or not it was by a bona fide film maker. It was the timing of the ad and the fact that the movie was going to be broadcast. Movies in theaters were not covered by the law. Your premise is incorrect. The decision could have been narrow in scope. It wasn't. This is what people like me decry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeGlzEavpTM

Here from the Wikipedia backgrounder:

>In response, Citizens United produced the documentary Celsius 41.11, which is highly critical of both Fahrenheit 9/11 and 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. The FEC, however, held that showing the movie and advertisements for it would violate the Federal Election Campaign Act, because Citizens United was not a bona fide commercial film maker.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#338

Post by Apocryphon »

hindsightRegret wrote: post #75
gk1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I’m seeing Nashville mentioned, so I wonder if they’ll benefit somehow from this.

They'll never get 25k workers to relocate to Nashville.

Why not? Isn’t it the new Austin?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#340

Post by ctvo »

jhall1468 wrote: post #291
YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is notorious for paying pennies. 25k jobs paying 150k on average is a pipe dream. ask whole foods delivery people for Amazon fresh or whatever its called. they are counting their pay including $5 mandatory tip they collect from customers.

So few sentences to be so wrong. First of all, these jobs were all white collar. Amazon's current new grad SDE's in NY and SF both have more than $150k in comp. New grads. Second, the food delivery people for Amazon Fresh are employees of Amazon. The Amazon Flex drivers is what you are talking about, and there is no "mandatory" tip for that service. What you're talking about is something Instacart and DoorDash was do…

Why is this getting downvoted? It's much more accurate than the parent comment.

Down voting because you dislike Amazon isn't a valid reason.

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