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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#331

Post by jolmg »

DATACOMMANDER wrote: post #222
itronitron wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I finally understand why my former very blue-collar coworkers would never leave a tip when we went out for lunch. I guess they had better information on the local businesses.

No, that’s just rude (given that the tipping culture still exists). If they really wanted to show solidarity they’d leave cash tips, which their server could then forget to report.

I wonder how well using cash tips could solve the problem. I know there are restaurants where servers are required to turn in any cash tips. If a server "forgets to report" and always has far less tips than his/her co-workers, I imagine that he/she would simply be replaced for someone else that does earn tips to report. The employer could say the lack of tips is indicative of poor performance, too.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#333

Post by justtopost »

paxy wrote: post #152
nck4222 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.

Plus all studies done on tipping have disputed this. Tips don't depend on the quality of service but rather on how attractive and flirty the waitress is.

That is a clear quality expressed in service. Why shouldnt you optimise for customer satisfaction?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#334

Post by dzonga »

komali2 wrote: post #66
nsenifty wrote: post #22

This is why the tipping system in the US is absurd. The whole "you must tip because they get paid peanuts" argument is a circular logic. How about making sure that the worker gets paid fairly by their employer and customers can then optionally tip for outstanding service?

Fuck it pisses me off how the conversation in America somehow shifted to make everything the fault of the poor. Service disrupted because bus driver/garbage collector / teacher/hotel employee strike? How dare those selfish underpaid and overworked peasants stand up for reasonable hours! They should consider themselves lucky they have a job at all! (It should be: how dare the corporations or federal agencies pay so li…

[flagged]

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#335

Post by halr9000 »

burger_moon wrote: post #77
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

I'm not even going to send an angry tweet. I'm going to keep ordering. If a driver takes the job, at the price Instacart wants to pay, it's on the driver, of course. And this works until it doesn't! Once people quit driving for IC, THIS is the market price signal which will cause the system to reconfigure. If IC can't get drivers, they must pay more!

I have zero illusions that enough people understand the free market to be patient and allow for this to happen. We need to teach more economics in grade school.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#336

Post by markovbot »

finnh wrote: post #218
burger_moon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

GP is also tipping in cash, forcing instacart to pay the full boat and returning tip to its rightful place as additional (and untaxed!) income. Seems like a not-bad approach.

Still financially supporting literal thieves.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#337

Post by shard972 »

ergothus wrote: post #241
wilkskyes wrote: post #111

What are the poor legitimately at fault for then? I'm tired of this implication that the poor can never be at fault for anything, because they are so poor. It is an overly simplified sympathy that doesn't always reflect reality.

Nothing. Sure, INDIVIDUALS are at fault for a variety of options, but if you're looking to blame the poor as a group for something, you're using the wrong criteria, since it's a status that has no direct mapping to choice.

So the rich, powerful and elite are also not responsible for anything either? Just individually?

That seems like quite the atomised society.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#338

Post by FireBeyond »

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #149
lenticular wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

At least there are federal protections for employees. Companies that offset their operating costs onto an on-demand contract labor force are in a really exploitative gray area. I disagree that collective action is impossible. Consumers become aware of problems, eg. high fructose corn syrup, and act accordingly, eg. buying less sugary junk. Cultural change is slow-moving but it starts with people giving a shit.

> Consumers become aware of problems, eg. high fructose corn syrup, and act accordingly, eg. buying less sugary junk.

Are we actually doing that? I've seen / heard little evidence that our trend on sugar is moving in a healthy direction, at least in the US.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#339

Post by vxNsr »

dabockster wrote: post #295
ABeeSea wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and Washington state specifically does not allow tip credits. Tips in WA are always on-top or hourly wage. (Which is why even a terrible bartender in Seattle can do pretty well.)

But as soon as someone 1099's you, you're out of luck. Found this out the hard way when I got 1099'd by a startup I was working for in 2017. The IRS has a mechanism on the Federal level to fix things enough to avoid the higher tax burden, but WA state explicitly requires a W2 from an employer for even the most basic of unemployment benefits (the determination letter from the IRS apparently doesn't count).

So go the other way and report them for abusing 1099, for 1099 to be legal they can't even directly give you any hardware, you need to pay for it yourself, I think there are even laws about using their desks.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#340

Post by darkpuma »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #265
finnh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is also tipping in cash, forcing instacart to pay the full boat and returning tip to its rightful place as additional (and untaxed!) income. Seems like a not-bad approach.

Where did you get the notion that tips are supposed to be untaxed income?

It's not that they're "supposed to be." But they are.

Frankly tax fraud from people working for tips in the service sector should be among the very least of our worries as a society.

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