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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#221

Post by lenticular »

aqme28 wrote: post #162
lenticular wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't wage theft since they are independent contractors. It's more like a company stiffing a supplier. More of a civil than criminal matter. Of course, these folks wouldn't have the resources to sue anyway, even if they weren't bound by binding arbitration.

> More of a civil than criminal matter I think the question though is _why_ is that? If I steal $950 from someone then it's criminal, but if I refuse to pay them what I agreed then it's civil. It's an odd discrepancy IMO.

I bet the U.S. Chamber of Commerce can tell you the answer to this one.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#222

Post by DATACOMMANDER »

itronitron wrote: post #79
mawburn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IHOP will adjust wages based on tips, they try to equal it out to minimum wage. My wife lasted about 3 weeks there. It was also by far the hardest I've ever seen her work, and for context we met in the Army.

I think I finally understand why my former very blue-collar coworkers would never leave a tip when we went out for lunch. I guess they had better information on the local businesses.

No, that’s just rude (given that the tipping culture still exists). If they really wanted to show solidarity they’d leave cash tips, which their server could then forget to report.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#223

Post by gbear605 »

muppetman wrote: post #127

It's funny (to me, anyway) that this sort of things affects only America (and I guess Canada?) This odd culture you have there of tipping and how it's so tightly integrated into your society. As a non-American I had to read the article a few times to understand what the problem was - I thought this was just how tipping worked in the US. I always read of service workers who only manage to "stay afloat" by the tips the…

Legally in America, employees who get tips instead of wages have the tips added onto a minimum of $2.13, which is three times more than these contractors were making. More than that, these contractors are from Washington state, which doesn't allow this exception - the minimum wage for everyone is $12/hour (except if you're an Instacart "employee," of course). Many other states also have higher minimum wages. Also, these Instacart workers were hired under a different pay system (wage + tips) and then this replaced it, while regular tipped employees at least knew it coming in.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#224

Post by maxxxxx »

atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

No, there need to be laws or regulations. even if some people watch these things and stop using the service most people don't know about the practices of a service.

For most companies I deal with I have no idea if they are doing shady things or not and I generally don't bother checking.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#225

Post by megy »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #81
nitwit005 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do make the argument that you should tip generously because they're poorly paid.

The very people writing these workers’ paychecks are effectively making this argument.

The very people collected those checks are making those arguments, directly. Lets be honest, service staff prefer the way it is. They can prey on their customers, and they end up making more than they would if paid min wage.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#226

Post by BeetleB »

aqme28 wrote: post #151
lenticular wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

>Boycotts essentially never work Is this true?

>Is this true?

For the most part. It depends on your perception of a boycott. Very, very few boycotts are adopted by a significant fraction of the customer base. I've participated in plenty of boycotts. Only one of them resulted in a change in behavior. The rest were ignored by both the company and the majority of their customers.

For the most part, the value of a boycott is helping me sleep at night - not in actually solving the underlying problems.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#228

Post by lenticular »

gowld wrote: post #55
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

According to what ruling? It depends on the agreement between Instacart and delivery staff.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, as you absolutely are not wrong about this. They are independent contractors who entered into a contract just like a restaurant could contract with a food supplier. They aren't employees in the least as far as the law is concerned.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#229

Post by maxxxxx »

wilkskyes wrote: post #111

What are the poor legitimately at fault for then? I'm tired of this implication that the poor can never be at fault for anything, because they are so poor. It is an overly simplified sympathy that doesn't always reflect reality.

There is no excuse for exploiting people no matter if they are poor or something else. Ever.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#230

Post by hedvig »

lenticular wrote: post #83
dhimes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. They need to pay reimburse those workers with a penalty fee tacked on.

That's not necessarily true. Folks in the gig economy are often classed as "independent contractors" and thus are not subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act, including minimum wage laws. They also are not entitled to, nor almost ever receive, reimbursements for work expenses. When you are talking about using your own vehicle and paying for depreciation, mechanical work, and gas, this is considerable. It often winds…

So we need to get rid of this "independent contractor" loophole.
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