Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 543 posts

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#331

Post by kadendogthing »

smogcutter wrote: post #316
kadendogthing wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this quote is that it's too vague and can be applied to general entertainment and leisure time, no drugs needed. You shouldn't be listening to music, you should be creating it. You shouldn't be playing video games, you should be designing them. You shouldn't be just eating food, you should be the one cooking it. You shouldn't be lazing around at the pool, you should be swimming laps. It's disgustingl…

Clearly sitting around on the couch playing video games all day can be just as destructive as sitting on the couch smoking pot all day. Also clearly, there are tons of skilled, industrious people who also smoke pot. I don't think anyone here is saying you should never entertain yourself, but maybe also don't make yourself a slack jawed victim of Infinite Jest. Moderation is the thing, and for young people in particul…

>can be just as destructive as sitting on the couch smoking pot all day

All evidence points to it being more destructive.

>Moderation is the thing

That's exactly what I just said.

>and for young people in particular that can be a lot to ask.

It can be. And quite frankly certain forms of media are doing more damage to our youth than marijuana ever could when taken in excessive amounts. Loss of sleep, sedentary lifestyles, in some cases toxic social environments.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#332

Post by otakucode »

Waterluvian wrote: post #67

Maybe this is too reductionist but I once heard someone describe it as, "there's nothing fundamentally dangerous about pot, but one of its (often intended) effects is that is slows our engines down. And some of us need to be firing on all cylinders." School was a tricky time for me. I'm thriving intellectually now, but I was a C- student pretty much 4th-12th grade. I needed those cycles that pot would have robbed me…

It seems that this might not be entirely the case. In young mice, at least, THC slows them down... but in elderly mice, it returns their brain to normal functioning. There's speculation that the young might already have enough endocannabinoids but as we age and production slows, supplementation can benefit memory and cognitive capabilities. That's only supported in animal models for now, though.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#333

Post by theWheez »

stochastic_monk wrote: post #183
icebraining wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my experience; plenty of productive artists (musicians, actors and photographers) among the smokers I know.

I have also known a number of very bright, productive, motivated, successful scientists, engineers, and developers who consume cannabis. Some have spoken highly of brainstorming while stoned, fleshing out the details and narrowing their scope and intentions as they sober up, while others say that it helps them concentrate by slowing down their racing thoughts. And while I've known people who've used it to waste their…

Anecdotally, a friend of mine and myself use marijuana down the former route. Fleshing out ideas, exploring thought. In fact, functional programming "clicked" for me when I was high. It was still there in the morning!

But that doesn't mean every thought is going to be valuable, or even good. If treated that way, I think it can be a good tool. I am thankfully not prone to addiction or reliance.

It reminds me of Carl Sagan's thoughts [0] and especially this quote:

> If I find in the morning a message from myself the night before informing me that there is a world around us which we barely sense, or that we can become one with the universe, or even that certain politicians are desperately frightened men, I may tend to disbelieve; but when I’m high I know about this disbelief. And so I have a tape in which I exhort myself to take such remarks seriously. I say ‘Listen closely, you sonofabitch of the morning! This stuff is real!’

I find it more fascinating to explore thought while on cannabis and that is what I primarily use it for. Instead of saying "dude you're so high" to a far out thought, I try to explore it as far as it will go. Quite enjoyable.

[0] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#334

Post by lwansbrough »

parf02 wrote: post #279

I took pot when I was 22 and it had disastrous effects on my life for over a year after. Had to seek psychiatric help because of it. Had intense depersonalization and panic effects triggered from the one bad pot experience. It's unfortunate that pot is perceived as being so benign. The psychiatrist told me that cases like me are actually not that rare unfortunately.

This happens to a lot of people (my self included) and I’m willing to bet it is at least partially triggered by the paranoia around doing drugs. You were expecting something bad to happen, or were nervous about something bad happening, so it did.

I had a similar experience. Eventually learned to control my anxiety and now am I able to come down from the onset of a panic attack before it happens. Weed is no longer an issue for me now that I’m not afraid.

Anxiety is a much different issue than psychosis. The psychosis issue is very real but only affects a very small number of people who are predisposed, and even then likely only when they’re young and unlucky.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#335

Post by edoo »

Cannabis slows down certain abstract thinking abilities and you basically think differently for a while. This can be an amazing insightful juxtaposition to normality. I suspect it is the effect on the short term memory centers that make it more difficult to hold complex ideas in your head long enough to find results. I personally do not enjoy critical thinking when partaking. I can feel the deficiency. It does seem to open my creative side, and for me goes best at the end of a long day like a glass of wine or video game.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#336

Post by theWheez »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #237
gammateam wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ITT: people talking about anecdotes and rebuttals to anecdotes using different time scales, time frames, usage scales, age ranges, statistics in different ranges and also totally incorrect information good one, hackernews

Agreed, if these anecdotes weren't stated in the same manner empirical evidence is typically stated I would not be concerned. It makes for a muddy discussion at best.

Ideally legalization will remove this pop science and anecdotal experience presented as fact, as more studies can nail down what this drug is actually doing to people.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#337

Post by the-pigeon »

galvin wrote: post #320
framebit wrote: post #278

A therapist friend recently attended a conference where a big group of doctors and health professionals focused around adolescents presented on the link between pot and the development of psychosis and even schizophrenia in users under age 32 or something like that. I've definitely heard about this colloquially with people reacting very differently to the same strain ("we were all fine but she was just freaking out")…

As I understand it THC aggravates symptoms in people predisposed to psychosis. CBD is antipsychotic and can have a balancing effect but unfortunately growers have been selectively breeding and optimizing for high THC at the expense of CBD for decades. The result is that cannabis is more "incompatible" with certain people than it used to be.

Which is one of the big problems with cannabis studies.

THC is known as the "active" ingredient in cannabis. However we know it's definitely not the only one.

There are 113 identified cannabinoids. Most are believed to have some effect. And there's terpenes that are believed to have effects as well.

So the problem is that ever single bit of cannabis has different ratios of these chemicals. Even two plants with the exact same genetics grown in same conditions can have widely ranging ratios. Which potentially means widely ranging effects.

The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavor...

http://www.ncsm.nl/english/what-is-medicinal-cannabis/active...

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#338

Post by thecatspaw »

LrnByTeach wrote: post #330
BurningFrog wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. You're right, of course. But the same is true of peanuts.

Let us say there are 100 teens in your neighborhood, 65 of them tried eating peanuts and 20 of them liked very much and started eating multiple times a week on a regular basis. Now 5 of those 20 started developing health/mental problems which are noticeable by parents, teachers & doctors. What are the chances of the majority of those 5 stop eating peanuts, It is very high. Now, what are the chances of similar 5 teens…

The same?

You can rationalize peanuts beeing unhealthy for you exactly the same way you can rationalize away health issues due to marijuana.

"All other people eating it are fine"

"I've been eating peanuts for 5 years, and look, Im still alive"

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#339

Post by drawkbox »

Analog24 wrote: post #325
drawkbox wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of things that kids do not recover from and we now know that moderate marijuana use is not one of them. That is a ridiculous overgeneralization. This article supports the opposite. While it is never good for kids to do drugs (including alcohol, smoking/nicotine or too much caffeine), the article takes the reverse point that you are taking here, cognition quickly improves after which is obvious as i…

I think you misread what I said, which could have been worded better. > There are plenty of things that kids do NOT recover from and we now know that moderate marijuana use is NOT one of them. i.e. Kids don't recover from everything (as OP stated) but we now know they can recover from moderate marijuana use. The original comment was trying to dismiss this work as trivial, I was trying to prove otherwise. Also, no one…

I misread your statement, sorry about that.

I agree though it is nice to have proof, part of the campaign against cannabis and safer decriminalized markets / regulated markets is about harm to kids, which would be better served in a legal / regulated market where more harm reduction is employed.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#340

Post by pennaMan »

thinkingemote wrote: post #288
kadendogthing wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this quote is that it's too vague and can be applied to general entertainment and leisure time, no drugs needed. You shouldn't be listening to music, you should be creating it. You shouldn't be playing video games, you should be designing them. You shouldn't be just eating food, you should be the one cooking it. You shouldn't be lazing around at the pool, you should be swimming laps. It's disgustingl…

I understand the quote to mean that pot makes people okay with being bored. Other recreational activities don't have that same effect. You might do them to stave off boredom, or you won't be bored when doing them, but it's not really the same thing. Video gaming is an interesting one, a form of dopamine addiction. Pot isnt about dopamine I think?

The quote, while probably the best way to address juvenile cannabis use I have ever heard, is still from a satirical cartoon. Subjectively, cannabis does NOT make oneself numbly content with being bored. What I found is that it makes things seem profound or meaningful or funny, significantly lowering the boredom threshold. You can for sure still be bored when high and I find the boredom feelings are actually amplified (like sitting in a huge line at a store with no screen/headphones gets really old really fast).
Post reply on HN