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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#331

Post by zavi »

bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

It's equally wrong from the moral standpoint to operate in China under CPC as in EU under the Right to be Forgotten and the likes (censorship is censorship). But I'm not sure if avoiding these two markets altogether is a practical strategy given the rise of Chinese tech competitors. It's sad but I think the short period of history during which free speech was celebrated is coming to an end.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#332

Post by svachalek »

BrandonMarc wrote: post #319
knuththetruth wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not people at Google have different opinions is largely irrelevant, unless they’re going to engage in coordinated labor action like they did with the drone program. Google, despite all its townhalls and Q&As, is not a democracy. It’s a corporation governed by an authoritarian command hierarchy who have seemingly chosen to get in bed with another authoritarian regime called the Chinese government.

> unless they’re going to engage in coordinated labor action like they did with the drone program. What was this?

I believe this is in reference to employees quitting over the company's participation in the development of artificially intelligent weapons.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#333

Post by nailer »

jiveturkey wrote: post #295
nailer wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By definition, “companies” are incentivized to prioritize capital pursuit over moral pursuit. It’s actually the most fundamental part of the whole concept. Indeed. But if it's most reasonable economically, for a company to pay someone to dump their taxic waste into the sea, that doesn't mean it is morally OK to do so. > Many democratic governments in the world, and particularly the most wealthy and powerful ones, a…

> But if it's most reasonable economically, for a company to pay someone to dump their taxic waste into the sea, that doesn't mean it is morally OK to do so. True, but what are you getting at? It has happened and it does happen. The fact that it isn't morally OK doesn't change the facts on the ground. It's like the bicyclist complaining that he had the right of way vs. a car that hits him.

Oh, I thought it was obvious. Much in the same way we disincentivize waste dumping, or bad drivers, we can disincentivize working for totalitarian regimes.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#335

Post by brainfog »

pathseeker wrote: post #325
brainfog wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously arguing that folks against maven were PRC shills?

Nobody said anything about shills. You can be anti-US and pro-China without being a shill.

I guess I just don't get the original comment. Even if some prc supporters oppose the US military, what on earth does that have to do with the (equally silly but for different reasons) "where are all the people who were against maven?" question if not to paint the majority of maven opponents as prc shills?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#336

Post by knuththetruth »

svachalek wrote: post #332
BrandonMarc wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless they’re going to engage in coordinated labor action like they did with the drone program. What was this?

I believe this is in reference to employees quitting over the company's participation in the development of artificially intelligent weapons.

That was a big part of it, but there were also several other coordinated, internal campaigns. Here’s a good account by one of the Googlers involved:

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military...

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#338

Post by ubernostrum »

DINKDINK wrote: post #273
joshuamorton wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw I think you're being mildly too revisionist in the other direction. The major issue with the hacking wasn't stealing source code, but attempts to access user data. Certainly accessing source code is bad, but imo in general Google protects user data much moreso than source code. (I work at Google)

>in general Google protects user data How is storing and cataloging reams of private data 'protecting' it? If your significant other was constantly noting every friend you talked to, every purchase you made, videotaping your every move, would you call that protecting them? To protect a user's data, it shouldn't even be collected in the first place. I think a better choice of words is that Google does a better job at…

Companies like Google and Facebook protect user data the way a bank protects its vault.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#339

Post by longcheng »

bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

Google envies the huge amount of data Baidu enjoys. In this AI/ML age, data is gold. China is the biggest gold mining field. If I were China government, I would block Google for its bluff made/called in 2010.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#340

Post by dan-robertson »

quotemstr wrote: post #265

The hypocrisy of western activist types on this issue is astounding. One week, they demand that tech companies across the US censor what they find "harmful", but the next week, they condemn the Chinese for doing exactly the same thing for content they find "harmful". Either you're in favor of free speech or you're just partial about which content you want to censor. The activist crowd in the west lost all moral stand…

I think there are two things to say. The first is that you aren’t comparing like for like. In the Chinese case, the Chinese government gets to choose what is censored and any search engine has to censor the same things, whereas in the US it would presumably be Google that gets to decide what to censor and so someone could conceivably go to another search engine to avoid it.

It’s also worth noting that even if search results are censored, in the US model the websites can still be accessed (although US-based illegal websites can get shut down), whereas in the Chinese model the websites themselves are banned.

The second is that even if one were to accept that the models are similar, that doesn’t mean that google has to have both or have none. It could take any stance on what level of censorship (or pushing down in search rankings) is acceptable in what cases and choose what to do based on that.

For example google already tries to remove spam that tries to gain its rankings but I don’t see people complaining that Google’s rankings unfairly penalise these sites and suppress their “free speech.”

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