Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 407 posts

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#331

Post by espadrine »

sebst wrote: post #257

Technically, a law like this is prone to be abused for censorship purposes. Whether this “dual use” is intended or not by parliamentarian voters, is obviously unclear. To make it even worse, such laws don’t “outlaw” some behaviour, but put a high risk on it through civil law. So, it helps multinationals (and a possible malevolent regime) and hurts small companies as well as citizens. To me, it’s hard to believe this…

Unsurprisingly, this law was most pushed by anti-EU right-wing politicians that somehow got elected as MEP, such as Marie-Christine Boutonnet[0] and Gilles Lebreton[1].

All French MEPs of the European Parliament Committee on Legal Affairs but one are right-wing eurosceptics, and for this law[2].

(Aside, the right-wing extremists MEPs were easily recognized during the Zuckerberg hearing, as their questions focused exclusively on the worry that Facebook restricts —“censors”, in their words— hate speech[3].)

[0]: https://twitter.com/MCBoutonnetFN/status/1009429390151901185

[1]: https://twitter.com/Gilles_Lebreton/status/10093895047871078...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_Committee_...

[3]: https://twitter.com/NicolasBay_/status/998979333011197952

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#332

Post by ginko »

growlist wrote: post #270
ginko wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However these sudo-democratic want-be centralized state is totally against the history of European has already caused a endless serious of disaster and mismanagement. How is the EU particularly undemocratic? I'm Austrian and most of the European branches map relatively well to our own federal structure. (Nationalrat -> European parliament, Government -> Commission, Bundesrat -> Council(although that one has more pow…

What is your view on the EU's typically hostile response to democracy when voters prove disobedient? I'm thinking for example of Ireland being forced to rerun the vote on the Nice treaty, and the ramming through of the European Constitution after French and Dutch rejection by renaming it the Lisbon Treaty.

The Lisbon treaty is NOT the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe. This is a common falsehood.

The TCE would have been further reaching, establishing a directly elected president of the European Commission for instance. It's kind of funny considering how all the anti-EU people that voted against the constitution are the same people complaining about the EU's lack of democracy.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#333

Post by staticelf »

leifg wrote: post #107

As a EU citizen I have always been (and still am) a strong advocate for the European Union. I think the founding of the European Union was one of the greatest things that could ever happen to European citizens. I full heartedly believe this institution played a major role in retaining the piece after World War 2. The concept of open borders in (most of) Europe is something I would never want to miss. But seeing the l…

How can you still be a strong advocate for the EU after this kind of shit gets passed? I do not understand how anyone can defend the EU when they continue to pass draconian laws in an undemocratic way.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#334

Post by VMG »

merinowool wrote: post #259
VMG wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, this is where plausible deniability setups kick in. Of course the EU can go full police state, but at that point I hope the regular citizens pushes back. The goal is to raise the cost of enforcement.

Problem is that you cannot pretend you can't remember the password. So unless what you hide can give you more time than for not disclosing the password, then yes having things encrypted could help...

You can have different volumes for different passwords.

Plausible deniability.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#335

Post by laumars »

zaroth wrote: post #249
laumars wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second it's hard not to notice that much of what the EU does is try to hurt US tech companies These are European laws designed to regulate industry inside the EU. If an American company decides to do business in the EU they're subject to the same rules as any business already operating inside the EU. So claiming this is designed to hurt US tech companies is quite a reach. If you feel American tech companies are bei…

> These are European laws designed to regulate industry inside the EU. More like regulating industry which are accessible within the EU, which may not even be EU based. So these laws have broader reach, similar to how the US DMCA had broader effective reach. > If an American company decides to do business in the EU they're subject to the same rules as any business already operating inside the EU. If an internet servi…

I guess the crux of the matter is I don't generally consider EU regulations "unfair" nor "hair brained". I think competition laws are needed to prevent abuse of market dominance, I think the GDPR is a good thing as it brings data protection into the 21 century. I do think the proposed copyright law is a terrible but that's just one bad egg and one which still has the potential to get blocked (plus as you've highlighted, America isn't any better at copyright reform nor legislations that don't have global implications for non-US businesses).

So I welcome the fact that I'm protected by the EU even when I do business with American sites. If they don't like that then they're free to block my IP (it's really very easy to throw up blocks based on geographic IPs - it's something I've needed to do myself for several different projects due to political or legal reasons. So I'm quite aware of how GDPR affects American websites as well).

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#336

Post by growlist »

ginko wrote: post #332
growlist wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your view on the EU's typically hostile response to democracy when voters prove disobedient? I'm thinking for example of Ireland being forced to rerun the vote on the Nice treaty, and the ramming through of the European Constitution after French and Dutch rejection by renaming it the Lisbon Treaty.

The Lisbon treaty is NOT the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe. This is a common falsehood. The TCE would have been further reaching, establishing a directly elected president of the European Commission for instance. It's kind of funny considering how all the anti-EU people that voted against the constitution are the same people complaining about the EU's lack of democracy.

That's one example, and opinions differ in spite of your assertion. What about the other examples?

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#337

Post by Camillo »

espadrine wrote: post #331
sebst wrote: post #257

Technically, a law like this is prone to be abused for censorship purposes. Whether this “dual use” is intended or not by parliamentarian voters, is obviously unclear. To make it even worse, such laws don’t “outlaw” some behaviour, but put a high risk on it through civil law. So, it helps multinationals (and a possible malevolent regime) and hurts small companies as well as citizens. To me, it’s hard to believe this…

Unsurprisingly, this law was most pushed by anti-EU right-wing politicians that somehow got elected as MEP, such as Marie-Christine Boutonnet[0] and Gilles Lebreton[1]. All French MEPs of the European Parliament Committee on Legal Affairs but one are right-wing eurosceptics, and for this law[2]. (Aside, the right-wing extremists MEPs were easily recognized during the Zuckerberg hearing, as their questions focused exc…

That's not really borne out by the vote: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/149721/juri-committee-...

It seems that 3 eurosceptics voted yes, one voted no, and two abstained. The bill was actually introduced and mostly voted for by the EPP, which is a centre-right and strongly pro-EU group (Angela Merkel's CDU is part of it).

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#338

Post by MistahKoala »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #302
hartator wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GDPR is a good example of another law which is potentially dangerous. However, I do see that it's hard to comply with both, but I don't see how they interact with other. The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever while GDPR forbids you to do so. > Why? I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian.

Libertarian doesn't mean "right-wing", it just was co-opted as such, in fact there are many left-wing libertarians.

And libertarians aren't necessarily or typically objectivists.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#339

Post by pergadad »

tomp wrote: post #101
mrleiter wrote: post #12

It was approved on in a committee of the European parliament (for legal matters), which means that now they will enter negotiations with the European Council and then after some time and processes laid out in Art. 293ff TFEU, it will be debated in the European Parliament at some point. So yes, there is still plenty of room and time to discuss this rather unfortunate policy. EDIT: For more info: http://www.europarl.eu…

Is there a list of who voted and how available anywhere?

Here it is:

https://juliareda.eu/2018/06/not-giving-up/

Who voted in favour? Conservatives, social democrats, liberals and the Nazi.. uh nationalists.

Against? Greens and the left

You should be able to find the original list here, by opening the PDF for 20 June:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/juri/votes-in-co...

The actual content of the amendments is here:

http://www.emeeting.europarl.europa.eu/committees/agenda/201...

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#340

Post by cityhomesteader »

josteink wrote: post #10

This is what happens when those in control don't understand, know or care about the things they regulate. So I guess this is bad. --goes and reads article-- > Article 11, requiring online platforms to pay publishers a fee if they link to their news content, was also approved. What the fucking FUCK? Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the wor…

> This is what happens when those in control don't understand, know or care about the things they regulate.

It's very naive to think that highly intelligent people don't know or care about what they regulate. I think it is the exact opposite. They care and understand deeply.

> Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the world wide web?

Amazing isn't it.

> Just how is it possible to be so out of touch with how things work, and still be allowed to pass regulation?

Think about who this benefits. You are just viewing it from one side. Who stands to benefit from all this?

Post reply on HN