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Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

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Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#331

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee »

twblalock wrote: post #118
ontoillogical wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I prefer to use Lyft is that they let you tip drivers.

I tip my Uber drivers. I just give them cash. Uber doesn't know about it unless the drivers report the tips, and I doubt they do.

Right, but why not offer tipping in the app? I think everyone knows that would reduce the friction for tipping. One of Uber's original selling points was convenience -- not having to carry cash around for taxis. Now they've solved their problem, but who cares about the driver, right?

Lyft simply asks you after your trip to rate and tip, all optional.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#332

Post by vinceguidry »

RyanZAG wrote: post #330
vinceguidry wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dark ages are a myth. This is becoming more accepted amongst historians. It's an artifact of our imaginations, not a valid narrative. Athens and Rome are only two of countless agrarian kingdoms / empires of the day. When Rome fell, the rest of Europe mostly just went on without imperial control. More wars were fought but warfare of the day was exceedingly resource-constrained and not like the total wars we see to…

Interesting, but it seems you're coming from the position of having already concluded what the answer is, and then going back and fitting everything to that precondition.

Reassessing historical narratives you grew up with has that effect. I'm coming to find out that nothing is as it was taught. The information you gain today should be prioritized over the information you learned yesterday, just because it comes from a better and more informed perspective.

I've been spending lots of time on Quora, I eventually learned that not a single way of thinking about events I had when I was younger was anywhere close to truth. Ignorance is the norm rather than the exception. You have to reify past events to fit current conclusions because you have no past understanding of those events that's reliable.

I'd call it "post-history" but if anything history is more important.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#333

Post by RyanZAG »

vinceguidry wrote: post #332
RyanZAG wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, but it seems you're coming from the position of having already concluded what the answer is, and then going back and fitting everything to that precondition.

Reassessing historical narratives you grew up with has that effect. I'm coming to find out that nothing is as it was taught. The information you gain today should be prioritized over the information you learned yesterday, just because it comes from a better and more informed perspective. I've been spending lots of time on Quora, I eventually learned that not a single way of thinking about events I had when I was youn…

Definitely, but that doesn't change the simple logic that if you have a conclusion, it's very easy to lose the truth of a historical situation by instead selecting an explanation that you want.

Let's say there is a historical event, and you know of 3 different possible explanations. Explanation 1 is what you learned as a child and it's clearly wrong now because of new evidence. Explanation 2 and 3 both fit all known facts and either one could be correct -- but only explanation 2 fits with your conclusion that the world is always heading towards liberalism (or conservatism or whatever you believe).

Do you pick explanation 2? Human nature says you do, and it's something we need to be aware of.

> You have to reify past events to fit current conclusions because you have no past understanding of those events that's reliable.

Do you really have to?

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#334

Post by matt_wulfeck »

aanm1988 wrote: post #316
x2f10 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semantics. There are industries where the employees are paid less than minimum wage as anticipated tips are factored into their overall compensation. If the tips do not meet the minimum wage threshold, the business is responsible for the difference. In this case, the costs (wages) are being offloaded by tips. Not to mention the industries that pay low wages as the tips subsidize a living wage. https://webapps.dol.gov…

> Semantics I don't think it is. I really don't like being involved in figuring out how much someone should be paid.

That's precisely the issue with tipping culture.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#335

Post by [deleted] »

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #328
harryh wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, for all intents and purposes, stealing from people poorer than you. The default assumption is that customers will tip at least a reasonable amount for all service. If you aren't going to do that you need to announce your intentions in advance. Whenever you go to a restaurant just let the hostess know your plans. That way you won't be deceiving people who are serving you.

You have a unique perspective on this situation. I don't have to do shit. I want food, I get food. Not my fault you create a barrier between me and food. Regardless, I don't go to restaurants because of this.

[deleted]

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#336

Post by harryh »

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #329
harryh wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, for all intents and purposes, stealing from people poorer than you. The default assumption is that customers will tip at least a reasonable amount for all service. If you aren't going to do that you need to announce your intentions in advance. Whenever you go to a restaurant just let the hostess know your plans. That way you won't be deceiving people who are serving you.

Also, if I have to state my intentions, then a server should have to say, "we ask for money because I chose to work for a company that doesn't pay well. Sometimes we deserve it. Most of the time we don't" Or realize how stupid that sounds

There is an important difference between the servers intentions and your intentions. The servers intentions are well inline with cultural norms and hence the default assumption in a restaurant. There's no need to bother restating them. This is what cultural norms are.

Your intentions, on the other hand, are very unusual and not standard. That's why it's important for you to tell people what is going on so that they are not caught by surprise.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#337

Post by MegaButts »

dang wrote: post #307
MegaButts wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly like Instacart, and that's fine, but I strongly disagree with you that they've built something better than the grocery store. For starters, right now they depend on grocery stores existing for their business, otherwise they are exactly like WebVan. Also, grocery shopping is nothing like postal delivery. You don't choose what mail you want, you just take everything that's addressed to you. Obviously this v…

> you sound like a shill This isn't allowed here, and we ban accounts that do it, so please don't do it again.

> The market is very big and it's a basic need that most people have.

> With Instacart, the value add is such a no brainer.

> All these are obvious next steps for Instacart, which wisely sees Grocery stores as a relic of the past ready to be replaced by something better.

> Instacart has found a better way.

> It all arrives as if by magic.

I should have cited my evidence, but that seems excessively positive to me. I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, I thought he came across as someone trying too hard to promote the company.

I'll try to be less accusatory in the future.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#338

Post by matt_wulfeck »

tptacek wrote: post #298
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #5

> Instead of the tipping option appearing on the checkout page as it originally had, a default 10 percent “service fee” sat in its place. If I could take a guess, I'd say this is more related to the user experience. I hate tipping. I'd rather just attach a 10-20% fee instead of needlessly evaluating someone else's performance with every delivery. Or better yet, I'd rather just use a company that adequately pays its o…

That's because you're doing it wrong. Don't evaluate their performance. Consider the tip a "variable buyer price-sensitivity upcharge". You're comfortable paying 20%. Me too. So: just always pay 20%, without thinking about it. That's in fact the actual economic purpose of the tip anyways. People think it's to encourage good service, but in fact, in jobs where you can make significant money tipping, there's already co…

Why in the world should a transaction go like this:

I just make a purchase. Now it's time to calculate the arbitrary variable buyer price-sensitivity upcharge.

Not to mention of course that charge will invariably be higher for those that are attractive. More so if they flirt.

Also tipping is not socially obligated in a lot of fields with employees who actually need the money: e.g. Fast food, bank tellers, retail employees.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#339

Post by Chris2048 »

tptacek wrote: post #325
Chris2048 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'if you can afford to pay more, you should' is not 'market segmentation'.

No, it very much is. See, for instance, all airline pricing, which is almost shrink-wrapped around the meta-itinerary of a typical business trip. That's not "socialism". It's ruthless capitalism.

No, it still isn't. Giving an example of actual market segmentation, still doesn't make context-free tipping about market segmentation.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#340

Post by tptacek »

Chris2048 wrote: post #339
tptacek wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it very much is. See, for instance, all airline pricing, which is almost shrink-wrapped around the meta-itinerary of a typical business trip. That's not "socialism". It's ruthless capitalism.

No, it still isn't. Giving an example of actual market segmentation, still doesn't make context-free tipping about market segmentation.

I don't understand this response at all. You suggested that making people who are less price sensitive pay more isn't a goal of market segmentation. In fact, it's literally the textbook example of market segmentation.
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