Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#331

Post by eruditely » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:16 AM UTC

eruditely wrote: post #330

We will simply see the truth of the affair in the reality of the supply contraction and the volatility in wages post-execution of the H!-B programme, then we will know for sure if the people paying us or the people are are either grossly misinformed or were outright lying to us depending on the events that take place, depending on the degree of volatility on the price of software we will get an idea for what the supp…

Say, this is also the situation with the quality of our knowledge relative to situations like that of self-driving cars and how they will effect the economy, superficially, but also pervasively, say.... (let the following be a few elements of the set of statements relevant to the affair of {economic effects of self driving cars}

* What will happen to traffic

* The amount of automobile deaths

* The degree of the impact

* The decrease in cost of shipping materials

* Commodity prices relative to the materials here

* Allegedly the primary value of self driving cars does not occur initially, but when we can organize cities around self-driving cars, like we did with electricity, and then reap the benefits. So place your bets boys.

We will say, compare current expectations of the affair relative to what happens and we will have a very modern gauge for the quality of our knowledge in post-industrial civilization/complex-systems. This'll be a real good gauge because a lot of money is riding on this, commodity prices, you know, the entire thing. And then we will know if we should trust our experts relative to the next situation that happens, the reason why this is a big deal is that such a massive change will not occur like this(likely) for awhile, this is like another industrial revolution.

I think it'll be an interesting affair. The reason this type of reasoning is really important is because we really need an accurate gauge of the quality of our economic knowledge and just the field of economics && the current experts we have in general, because we are using that very same subject to reason about this affair, say the effects of changes in the current Visa programme, if the effects are literally nothing like the standard theory, then non-mainline economic reasoning is just fine/dandy to use the next time and we cannot suppress those people next time. etc. (and all other sets of statements that apply to the current affair, i would never only mean what i only said.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#332

Post by flukus » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:20 AM UTC

big_youth wrote: post #156

emperorcezar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully at that point they can migrate from the US to the Republic of California http://www.yescalifornia.org/

I live in SF and hate how glibly techies talk about secession. It may be because I grew up in the south and it's part of our history but techies seem to forget that the bloodiest US conflict in history was to prevent this very thing. To even entertain the idea that secession would not result in a mass amounts of destruction death exemplifies the Bay area bubble mentality.

> To even entertain the idea that secession would not result in a mass amounts of destruction death exemplifies the Bay area bubble mentality.

Why? There's no reason secession has to be a violent affair. Very recently we almost saw Scotland succeed in a perfectly peaceful way and we're now witnessing the UK do the same.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#333

Post by eva1984 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:22 AM UTC

H1B needs reform no doubt. But I remain vigilant to see exactly how Trump administration is enforcing their agenda.

Worst case, I would go to another country or go back home, which will be hard in the beginning but will be fine over long term. As a decent and confident developer, it is not hard to find jobs around the world. There will be more opportunities for other countries if US fails to attract and retain the smart people from all over the world.

Stay strong and curious, people!

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#334

Post by mavelikara » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:22 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #320

mavelikara wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it wasn't tipped toward foreign workers, you'd hear stories of H1B workers who sadly lost their job to an American. You don't, because when an H-1B worker loses her job, she has to leave the country or find another job real quick. Either way, she most likely do not have time to get her story across to you.

That's another problem I have with the current H1B visa system: the workers are almost literally slaves. It is so close to indentured servitude that I'm not sure if it isn't the same thing as indentured servitude. I've worked at multinational tech companies and I've worked at regional enterprises and everywhere in between and unfailingly, the H1B employees have four people in a two bedroom apartment all sharing a 198…

> That's not fair.

What you are asking for is a point-based skilled immigration system like in Canada, Australia etc. Nobody has proposed that in US yet. But there is a bill - H.R.392: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 [1] - currently up for consideration of the Congress which removes the multi-decade green card backlogs for skilled immigrants. From [2]:

   H.R. 392, Fairness for High Skilled Immigrants Act replaces the current per-country caps 
   on immigration with a first-come first-served visa system without increasing the total number 
   of available visas. The current system of awarding no more than 7% of available employment-based 
   visas to one country is discriminatory. It ultimately imposes decades-long wait times for people 
   from some countries, creating a backlog of qualified workers. The bill makes no changes to the 
   current law limiting US employers to hire foreign workers except when there are no qualified, 
   willing, able, and available American citizens.

Please consider supporting H.R.392 as that is closest we have now to what you are asking for.

[1]: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/392/...

[2]: http://chaffetz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentI...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#335

Post by Clubber » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:23 AM UTC

bottled_poe wrote: post #90

icebraining wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that California allowing workers from other states. Some industries already have state-specific licensing requirements, maybe the software industry should too, to keep the riff-raff from flyover country from lowering their wages.

There is no doubt that the software engineering discipline is plagued by passionless amateurs. I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain, while the rest chase the next gravy train.

>I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain

No you don't. It's painful for the good ones too.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#336

Post by Clubber » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:27 AM UTC

0xfeba wrote: post #307

serge2k wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they also abuse the visa process for lower wages in lower positions. The numbers are public on this and look fine. People keep telling you "I'm on an H-1B and I'm paid reasonably". Please, offer actual proof or quit spreading this around.

People who are in startups and other unicorns are telling me this, sure. But lots of established SW companies use contracting companies that abuse the visa process. I should have been more clear, it's these contracting companies (usually based out of India) that are abusing the process. US companies that use them are pretty much complicit: http://www.vocativ.com/money/business/theyll-sponsor-america... http://www.inf…

I remember a fairly recent story about Disney laying off a bunch of IT folks.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-outsourcing/...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#337

Post by basurihn » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:30 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #327

794CD01 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most didn't according to a metric that's not the metric that is actually used to select the president and thus candidates and parties don't try to optimize for. As for the other point, agree to disagree.

You don't get to "agree to disagree" about literal numbers . You are literally and inarguably wrong . There is a difference.

Literal numbers that are unproportionally skewed by two overpowered population centers. It isn't just about proportionally capturing the interest of the individual voter. That individual voter in each state represents a sum total of different interests than a individual voter in another region of the States.

California and New York have different exports and interests than say, Wisconsin.

You would feel quite different about granting power to overpopulated areas if they were conservative rednecks, wouldn't you? Of course you would.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#338

Post by flukus » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:38 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #327

794CD01 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most didn't according to a metric that's not the metric that is actually used to select the president and thus candidates and parties don't try to optimize for. As for the other point, agree to disagree.

You don't get to "agree to disagree" about literal numbers . You are literally and inarguably wrong . There is a difference.

Literal numbers that would probably be very different had they been meaningful.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#339

Post by Tycho » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:39 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #168

yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

I love HN. Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans. HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up! ::angry face:: Trump hating on Indians who took our jobs! HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"

Well that's not even remotely the same thing. Trump hating on Iranians for no good reason . Trump hating on Mexicans who are here legally or aren't even in the country (the whole "Mexicans are rapists, but I'm sure there's some good ones" comment). Versus Trump changing immigration policy to balance foreign and domestic workers, where it's heavily tipped to foreign workers right now. He's not building a wall to keep…

Seems like you never read the full Trump quote on Mexicans, because that is precisely what he doesn't say. Usually when the clip is shown on television they edit it to make it seem that way though.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#340

Post by Clubber » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 2:54 AM UTC

big_youth wrote: post #156

emperorcezar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully at that point they can migrate from the US to the Republic of California http://www.yescalifornia.org/

I live in SF and hate how glibly techies talk about secession. It may be because I grew up in the south and it's part of our history but techies seem to forget that the bloodiest US conflict in history was to prevent this very thing. To even entertain the idea that secession would not result in a mass amounts of destruction death exemplifies the Bay area bubble mentality.

That time is very interesting to study. The economics of it are mind-bending. I think California has a ways to go before it becomes that economically powerful.

"in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. "

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cro...