Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 371 posts

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#81

Post by yummyfajitas »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
yummyfajitas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When companies like Tata are fulfilling government contracts, they _should_ be filling those positions with local labour at local rates. Here's an alternate proposal. Suppose it would cost $70k for the wrong type of people to provide labor, and $100k for the right type of person to provide labor. Lets continue having labor sold by the lowest cost provider. But then lets engage in direct wealth transfers; we'll have t…

Who pays for that $30k the government sends the displaced worker?

Taxpayers, same as in fergie's scheme.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#82

Post by Tenoke »

jijji wrote: post #58

The u.s. is over populated with low paid indian and asian workers from the h1-b program. About time someone tried to fix it. You goto a job interview and if you don't speak hindi or mandarin you cant get hired because you wont be able to talk to your coworkers. Lol

What companies are you interviewing with!?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#83

Post by pessimizer »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #63
fergie wrote: post #45

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether bad thing. From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans…

A large part of consulting recruits consist of yes-men who will work extra hours, do whatever their manager say with no critical thinking and will put up with clients' bullshit. This is what needed for the type of business and it has little to do with talent. I am not sure how many proud Americans who would sign up for those positions.

From zero to everyone, as a function of pay.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#84

Post by a_lifters_life »

kapnobatairza wrote: post #61

I think the fairly straightforward solution to the H1B issue is to tie it to a salary requirement, rather than a lottery/other subjective measures. If I want to hire a software developer from abroad and I'm willing to pay him above-market rates relative to similar jobs, that should demonstrate that I'm hiring that person because of his skills/knowledge rather than trying to cut costs.

Yes, yes, yes!

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#85

Post by jacques_chester »

d--b wrote: post #75

This is another media stunt. H1B visas are already american-first. Immigration rules make the applicant go through many hoops to prove that the job has been advertised and American people have been interviewing for the position before offering it to the H1B visa applicant. Of course, this is already silly, because companies can just fake it, and usually they hire the person they want for the skills they have. Everybo…

I don't think Trump really has "a strategy".

Not least because he's burning up his most combustible powder. It's well-known in politics that you do the antipopulist heavy lifting at the start of your term, then sugar the turd with various splurges towards the end of your term. Electoral feeling for any action, no matter how popular or unpopular, is always returning to a baseline of "meh".

If Trump had such a strategy, he'd have held this stuff over until before the mid-terms or the 2020 campaign.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#86

Post by thomasahle »

MarkMc wrote: post #65
threeseed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really. Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many projects. There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which the Trump administration is crafting and implem…

> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get local talent So it's not just a way to get regular software developers at a cheap price? OK let's raise the minimum salary requirement for H1B visas to $120k.

Or maybe something around the average software engineer pay scale of $80,000? What about student interns?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#87

Post by losvedir »

onion2k wrote: post #23
LAMike wrote: post #13

Any guess on how much will salaries for developers will rise after this move?

If a company can't recruit an immigrant worker on a visa they'll try recruit one of the currently unemployed local developers on the exact same package the immigrant would have been on. That has no impact on wages. If the job required a unique talent that would only have been possible to fill with an exceptionally talented immigrant worker then the job won't be filled, and the company will be consequently less compet…

Surely it depends on the particular reforms.

As mentioned in the article:

> “If firms are using the program for cheap labor, I think it will affect them and they will have to pay workers more,” said Ron Hira, an associate professor at Howard University. “If tech firms are using the program for specialized labor, they may find there are more visas available.”

If that were true then wages would likely rise, and your "unique talent" could still be found, possibly even with increase probability, right?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#88

Post by wiredfool »

fergie wrote: post #45

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether bad thing. From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans…

Maybe.

Here's the thing. Think about this as an MVP slapped together in a weekend, about to hit the biggest batch of software testers around. They're going to find show stopping bugs. And every one of those bugs is going to be someone's life, uprooted.

Visa allocation changes _going_forward_ are certainly a reasonable thing. Fully within the realm of policy.

But I'm going to bet that these changes are going to be of a far wider scope than expected and include people on current visas, and I wouldn't bet against visas getting revoked and workers having to go home the next day or get deported.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#89

Post by anjc »

threeseed wrote: post #76
anjc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it drive wages down?! It'd be the exact opposite, and is the reason that wages have been stagnant in STEM, and is the reason for the wage collusion scandal. Companies would have to increase their offers to attract talent from other companies. Or they would have to - as used to be the case everywhere - accept that talent is nurtured from within.

Not sure what on earth you're expecting with STEM wages. Across the economy and in most countries wages have been stagnant and STEM is no exception. And don't forget that most IT projects are not mandatory. If wages rise significantly companies will just cut back on projects which means more unemployed talent and hence the wages will drop back. And there is no evidence that talent is better nurtured from within. It i…

You'd expect wages to rise when it's in industries with supposed skills shortages, which necessitates major corporations lobbying government for more visas.

If wages rose, companies couldn't just uniformly cut back on projects to keep their net profit the same in a hypercompetitive industry. Hence the wage collusion scandal, mentioned above.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#90

Post by bottled_poe »

icebraining wrote: post #52
throwaway_374 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?" Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?

In the same way that California allowing workers from other states. Some industries already have state-specific licensing requirements, maybe the software industry should too, to keep the riff-raff from flyover country from lowering their wages.

There is no doubt that the software engineering discipline is plagued by passionless amateurs. I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain, while the rest chase the next gravy train.
Post reply on HN