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Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

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Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#331

Post by sergiosgc »

sevensor wrote: post #313
ensiferum wrote: post #120

I have been a long time ThinkPad user and recently purchased my latest ThinkPad T460p. Sadly it has some issues, the latest NVidia drivers don't work on the device but I'm forced to use the 1 year old driver that Lenovo provides in their packages. Figuring this out took my several days of trouble shooting (only dx9 was affected). Also the system fan is constantly running. I went to their support site and the online s…

Agreed, and I'm a long-time ThinkPad advocate with a stack of older models in my closet going back to the R31. I've always thought they had superior keyboards and pointing devices, and every one of my old ThinkPads runs Arch beautifully. (Granted, I didn't bother installing X on the R31.) Given the opportunity to pick out a new laptop for work last week, I passed them by, and that was before I was aware of this news.…

Honest question: what is the alternative? Apple is not. Dell has finicky hardware. HP has crappy laptops. Asus is hit and miss.

When my x1 dies, I think I'll just continue and get the then current generation x1...

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#332

Post by jpetso »

AhtiK wrote: post #290

Timing couldn't be better to now announce the new MacBook Pro. The issue doesn't affect Thinkpad line but sure does help people to make a buying decision between a MBP and a Thinkpad.

Because Macbook Pros are known for hassle-free Linux support?

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#333

Post by captainmuon »

makaronin wrote: post #298

Why was the title changed to "a recent Lenovo laptop" when at least four models are affected: Yoga 900 ISK2, Yoga 900S,Yoga 710S and Ideapad 710S.

Also, it seems only "Signature Edition" laptops are affected, i.e. those from the MS store. I think that makes a big difference.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#334

Post by davnicwil »

ferbivore wrote: post #108
davnicwil wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let your wallet do the speaking. It's an open market and you have the choice of just buying from Lenovo's competitors - 'they' will then realise there's value in not doing this.

No they won't. Lenovo doesn't care about losing you guys as customers, they care about the companies who buy thousands of the damn things so their employees can run Excel on Windows.

I don't disagree with you, but nor do I particularly care about losing Lenovo as a supplier.

If Lenovo lose customers over this, it may be the case that they won't care, but in that case a competitor will surely swoop in to catch those customers by supplying PCs that run Linux.

In any case, the market should continue to supply machines that run Linux, as long as there is a demand for them. So if you demand a machine that runs Linux, just vote with your wallet!

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#335

Post by coldtea »

forgetsusername wrote: post #285
coldtea wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, with around 8-10% today (9.6% according to StatCounter), Apple which targets higher-end, higher-margins gets most of the profits from the home computer market, at least in the US. It is also doing quite well recently in the corporate desktop (see IBM adopting Macs, etc). Heck, they almost dominate the "startup founder/employee" desktop, as well as the "university student" desktop.

> gets most of the profits from the home computer market, at least in the US. Do you have a source for this? I know it's the case with their phones, but they also have a much larger market share there. It's hard for me to believe they get "most of the profits" from the PC market with their minuscule share, especially when their computers are competitively priced.

Source? It has been reported again and again, along with the relevant stats. Examples:

Apple sells 5% of the world’s PCs and takes home 45% of the profit. (1)

During the recent third quarter, Apple commanded a 7.5 percent share of the computer market, up from 6.9 percent a year ago, IDC said. That was enough to move Apple up to No. 4 in market share for the computer market, pushing past Acer, which is now No. 5. (...) Each of the top five personal computer makers suffered a decline in total shipments, but four — Lenovo, HP, Dell and Apple — all captured a larger share of a shrinking market. (2)

* Apple's total share of the global PC market grew to 7.4 percent in the first quarter of calendar 2016, good for fourth place globally, according to IDC. That's up from 6.7 percent in the same period a year ago. (3)*

In fact Apple has such high per-PC revenues that it’s actually now the third-biggest PC maker by revenue – excluding Dell, because we don’t know what Dell’s revenues are, because it is privately owned. (4)

(1) http://fortune.com/2013/04/16/pie-chart-of-the-day-apples-ov...

(2) http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/10/09/report-apple-widens-sh...

(3) http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/192668/apple-grows...

(4) https://theoverspill.wordpress.com/2015/07/13/the-deaths-of-...

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#336

Post by marcosdumay »

coldtea wrote: post #267
0x0 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the Microsoft key the only mandatory key in UEFI Secure Boot? So I guess they are still the boss of the (non-Apple) modern x86 PC architecture.

So, add a distro's keys (to the firmware) or use a distro signed with the default (MS) key. Or get those Linux community to organize, and establish some body to create, and secure, keys for Linux that will be installed by default alongside MSs. As someone who suffered from at least a couple BIOS-based malware back on Windows PCs back in the day, I'm all for securing the bootloaders...

Or get to learn something about key management.

A centralized key is not secure. A secure key is not centralized. If you want any security, the computer owner must be the only person allowed to install keys on the boot sequence - what is the exact opposite of what MS mandates.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#337

Post by Nullabillity »

logicallee wrote: post #307
buro9 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also made me realize how important it is to have a community on which one can rely to spread problems like this one. Several people on their own can't do much against big companies, but a big tech commnity can. I never think that a support forum should be owned by the company. There is a clear conflict of interest. The company does not want you calling them out on product flaws or their behaviour, on a site that…

>Companies shouldn't run their support forums. Instead, companies should offer a better level of support by default. To clarify, by "run" do you mean "have one" (that they therefore by definition operate) or do you mean exercise moderator power over?

They shouldn't operate the servers, and they shouldn't have moderator power over them. It's fine to have reps answer questions on unaffiliated third-party sites, as long as it doesn't turn into sponsorship or some other COI.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#338

Post by captainmuon »

UK-AL wrote: post #233

Silly headline. In reality they're using a weird raid mode, no ones written a linux driver for yet.

That would not be headline-worthy. There are many devices that don't have Linux drivers.

The real problem is that somebody went out of their way to remove the ACPI setting in the BIOS, and apparently did this only for the Microsoft store "Signature" edition. Furthermore it doesn't seem to be a technical neccessity, since after re-flashing the BIOS the laptop works in ACPI mode with Linux and Windows.

Whether or not this was due to malice is besides the point for me personally. They should just say "oops, my bad" and set the flag allowing ACPI in the next BIOS revision.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#339

Post by marcosdumay »

dewiz wrote: post #42

Maybe someone can help me understanding. Why is it OK to lock down smartphones, TV devices, consoles, but not OK for PCs?

None of those are ok.

But a monopoly mandating interacting products to lock down is a completely different game.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#340

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dagaci wrote: post #273
deviate_X wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The version of linux he used does not have the right drivers! simple.

There seems to be a lot of hurt and over-excitement about this! It's not even possible to re-install Windows on this machine let alone Linux. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/forumtopicprintpage/boar... https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/forumtopicprintpage/boar... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And why would Microsoft be behind blocking Linux and windows installs, and reinstalls ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not convinced but your argument doesn't really pan out. Microsoft own Lenovo wrt what OS installs are made: by preventing any OS install except the factory one they can guarantee such devices will start at Win10 and only change if MS deem it. If they allowed reinstalls then users might be able to install Win7 or another OS.
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