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Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

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Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#331

Post by tomjen3 »

BrendanEich wrote: post #141
jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I get your point, and it is a good one. We have a micro payments channel to publishers, frictionless and anonymous, under construction, for folks who want no ads and who will pay. Other users than you will be able to mix and match, too: better and more private ads on sites they don't support, with a revenue share to these users that they can spend on sites they do. We aren't saying "only ads". We do see ads as a nece…

How will you provide better ads? Facebook knows everything about me and I unblock ads on their site for the laugh at how bad they are (Two examples: I don't want to go back to college to get my degree a second time at the place I already got it once, thank you very much. Also I don't want to supply my house with natural gas 200 miles from where I live). You will know very little about me, how will you come up with better ads? Remember better = more relevant to things I might want.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#332

Post by jryle80 »

dota_fanatic wrote: post #274
philh wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I want to buy a card, I go to a shop named Cards Galore. I go there because the name makes me think that they sell cards. I know it exists because I pass it every day, and they have their name in big letters on the outside of their shop. Do you consider that I've been manipulated? More to the point, do you find anything unethical in this?

Manipulation, yes. Unethical, maybe? (when you look at its effect in aggregate) Honestly I just want all the advertising (be it physical (signage, billboards, smells, etc) or digital) to get out of my environment. It's almost always noise and it's ugly. There's no reason we couldn't build a hyper-connected system where if I'm looking for something, I can find it. I want socks? Ok, how many sock stores are local? Ok,…

ok, let's assume such a hyper-connected system exists and ads disappear completely. You decide to buy socks. You find a supplier you like. Socks come in black and orange. You like black, but your wife prefers orange. She convinces you to change your mind with arguments such as "orange is more vibrant". Do you consider that a form of manipulation? is it unethical?

The truth is, we as human being are constantly target of manipulation, always was, always will be. If not in the form of ads, then masqueraded in other more subtle forms. Would you rather know you're explicitly being subject of manipulation?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#333

Post by oldmanjay »

oldmanjay wrote: post #319
coldpie wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly consistent. Enforcing one's religious views through threats of violence[1] is not the kind of diversity that the left wants. [1] This is what it means to pass and enforce a law.

The left is perfectly happy to enforce their views using the same mechanism. Absent a claim that there is a scientific basis for the institutionalized racism of affirmative action, for instance, it seems no less religious. Being the "correct" opinion isn't a saving grace here. This isn't my attempt to scuttle affirmative action, by the way. If you believe it is, you've missed my point

To any downvoters, please feel free to explain what you find objectionable. Is it the dissonance caused by the realization that the political left is willing to use techniques you find angering when they don't support your views?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#334

Post by amazon_not »

taurath wrote: post #304
rorykoehler wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fall into the camp of blocking all ads because frankly I don't like them. They are visual pollution. I also doubt I would pay for written content (maybe on a very rare occasion I might) if given a micro-payments solution because it doesn't seem worth paying for. I write blog posts from time to time and I do it for pleasure because I enjoy writing about things that interest me and sharing it with others. Honestly I…

Isn't it interesting the level of monetary value we put on most written content on the web (nothing) vs the time we spend reading said valueless content? Is it truly so valueless, or is it only valueless because similar content isn't worth anything? I click on the links I click on because I think they'll have more value to me than the rest of them, but I'm still not to the threshold of reaching any monetary value, on…

What you are describing is called Flattr. It was launched in 2010 and never went anywhere, like every other micropayment service.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#335

Post by tomjen3 »

teacup50 wrote: post #251
rorykoehler wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fall into the camp of blocking all ads because frankly I don't like them. They are visual pollution. I also doubt I would pay for written content (maybe on a very rare occasion I might) if given a micro-payments solution because it doesn't seem worth paying for. I write blog posts from time to time and I do it for pleasure because I enjoy writing about things that interest me and sharing it with others. Honestly I…

Media got worse as the revenue streams dried up; if you pay for writing, you can expect much better writing. I generally find that I'm better off spending an hour researching books to purchase on a non-programming subject than I am spending that hour Googling for free content on that subject.

I have payed nothing for PGs essays or slate star codex epically detailed tear-downs of published studies. They are among the best writing I have read.

I have payed nothing to the people on youtube who shown me how to fold a shirt, do my hair, make pasta easily, chop food like a chef or whatever else I needed help with; granted those aren't writing per-say, but a decade ago I would have found that information in a blog.

I won't pay for writing, I will pay for a fact-checker, but so far that only seems necessary on highly-technical books.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#336

Post by petercooper »

rorykoehler wrote: post #202
BrendanEich wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, and it is a good one. We have a micro payments channel to publishers, frictionless and anonymous, under construction, for folks who want no ads and who will pay. Other users than you will be able to mix and match, too: better and more private ads on sites they don't support, with a revenue share to these users that they can spend on sites they do. We aren't saying "only ads". We do see ads as a nece…

I fall into the camp of blocking all ads because frankly I don't like them. They are visual pollution. I also doubt I would pay for written content (maybe on a very rare occasion I might) if given a micro-payments solution because it doesn't seem worth paying for. I write blog posts from time to time and I do it for pleasure because I enjoy writing about things that interest me and sharing it with others. Honestly I…

Even some of the good stuff on this site I wouldn't feel compelled to pay for because truly it isn't transformative and I would probably be better off not reading it and doing something productive instead. [..] Stuff I do pay for: [..] Spotify, Netflix.

OK, so blog posts are of almost no value to you. But a bit of music and some TV shows, that's where the really productive, transformative stuff happens whose creators deserve a few bucks..

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#337

Post by jrowley »

callmeed wrote: post #326

Maybe this is a stupid question, but ... if ad blocking is such an issue for publishers, why don't they do the ad-serving logic on the server and display locally saved creative assets (from the same host)?

Ads are most effective when they are personalized, and it's hard for site to personalize an ad for you if you don't visit it frequently and it isn't relying on cookies from other sites. It's definitely doable though...

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#338

Post by stonogo »

morgante wrote: post #321
stonogo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freeloading? You're missing the point; we're not catering to your sense of entitlement.

You are freeloading. You're taking advantage of content that was paid for with the attention of people besides yourself. This is no different than grazing on a green you don't maintain. If you're so opposed to ads, don't read content. Don't pretend that anybody is forcing you to visit ad supported content.

This directive would be just if it were possible for me to know, in advance of clicking on a given link, if the destination I'm clicking on embraces advertising revenue. Instead, I'm just supposed to Figure It Out, wasting bandwith and processing power for ads I don't want to see? Your business model sucks. Sorry.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#339

Post by petercooper »

wfo wrote: post #170
jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I agree ads are bad but the current state of the web is disgusting, it's barely recognizable as a conduit for any real information. People hail the internet as a great way to find information -- if you type anything into the google search bar you're curious about, you either get wikipedia, which is clean and usually pretty great if incomplete, or clickbait ad-filled trash that gives you one sentence of content before…

if you type anything into the google search bar [..] you either get wikipedia [..] or clickbait ad-filled trash that gives you one sentence of content before you click "next", repeated 10 times downloading megabytes of data

Hyperbolic to the extreme and rarely true.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#340

Post by oldmanjay »

dota_fanatic wrote: post #274
philh wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I want to buy a card, I go to a shop named Cards Galore. I go there because the name makes me think that they sell cards. I know it exists because I pass it every day, and they have their name in big letters on the outside of their shop. Do you consider that I've been manipulated? More to the point, do you find anything unethical in this?

Manipulation, yes. Unethical, maybe? (when you look at its effect in aggregate) Honestly I just want all the advertising (be it physical (signage, billboards, smells, etc) or digital) to get out of my environment. It's almost always noise and it's ugly. There's no reason we couldn't build a hyper-connected system where if I'm looking for something, I can find it. I want socks? Ok, how many sock stores are local? Ok,…

I'm not sure where you live, but your desires are incompatible with free speech. Frankly, they're so extreme, I can't imagine you could be happy as anything other than a hermit. I certainly wouldn't be quiet in your presence just because you don't want to hear me.
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