Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The PyCon Incident

pastebin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: The PyCon Incident

#321

Post by utunga »

azov wrote: post #301

No sane company fires a developer over some random acquisitions on twitter. I wonder if he can sue them for wrongful termination. He can probably even claim gender discrimination - would he be fired if, everything else being the same, he was a girl? It would be ironic, given that this kind of lawsuits is probably the reason why his employer reacted this way in the first place.

I totally agree. Firing someone over a tweet sent by a third party - is just nuts. The tweeter (Adria) is not really responsible here, rather the person(s) that overreacted to it.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#322

Post by obviouslygreen »

blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Others have suggested that "vendetta" is too strong; I don't know about strong, but I think it could be better phrased as "severe overreaction."

People, not just men, make crude and stupid jokes. Yes, I think it's likely that the majority of such humor comes from us (I am male), but honestly... the part of your comment I definitely agree with is that this goes too far to be productive or rational.

I won't be boycotting SendGrid over this (aside from the fact that they haven't endorsed her actions, they provide a great service that I'd have a hard time replacing, and that's reality for you), but in line with your predicted reaction, I'll most certainly operate with an increased trepidation regarding open, casual expression around women in tech.

There's a difference between offensive speech and an innocent joke. Adria's idea about what's harmful to the community is over the top and counterproductive, and that's extremely unfortunate: Just imagine if she'd said something and PyCon hadn't done anything. Then they'd have been in the crosshairs, and I'm pretty sure they realized this, which almost certainly have influenced their reaction.

This is just sad, for all sorts of reasons.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#323

Post by obstacle1 »

pencilcode wrote: post #190
sergiotapia wrote: post #17

I already sent SendGrid's sales department an email that I will boycott their company and recommend others do so as well moving forward. Where I work we were considering between SendGrid or Mandrill and this incident practically made our choice for us. We cannot and _will not_ support a company that backs[1] a person like this. [1] - https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

They were being idiots and violating the code of conduct of pycon, and YES, it does apply to private conversations that others can't avoid hearing since they're in a public place. She shamed them rightly. As for them being fired, that was the company's call - who employed them. Now an anonymous guy posts this, she explains the whole sequence and in the end it's her fault. No, the responsability lies with who made the…

>She shamed them rightly

No. The appropriate first course of action upon being personally offended is not to passive-aggressively take a picture of perceived offenders and create a vendetta on Twitter; rather it is to turn around, confront what/who offended you, and deal with the situation like an adult.

Further this person's "shaming" was an abuse of her professional privileges and that alone warrants her firing.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#326

Post by ineedtosleep »

danilocampos wrote: post #77
codesuela wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business. How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar joke…

If it were private, it wouldn't have happened with people nearby to hear it and the photo wouldn't have depicted dozens of people surrounding.

Exactly. If you're sitting in a restaurant eating with some acquaintances/friends, you shouldn't expect privacy there either. The table next to you can get offended with some random inside joke that includes the words "penis", "boob", or maybe even "yoga pants."

No jokes allowed unless you're wrapped in a Faraday cage filled in with sound proof material. None whatsoever.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#327

Post by mturmon »

SODaniel wrote: post #52
danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Not being able to make sexually explicit jokes in private at a public conference is absolute ludicrous. No question that the offender here is the person posting this out of context and seemingly out of spite.

Remember, they were literally in a crowded auditorium with hundreds of people around them. It's just not private.

If you happen to work in California, you should know that this kind of remark, if repeated and unwelcome, would constitute harassment. If the person concerned was in management at a company, that's a problem.

As for her reporting method, the conference organizers specifically say they want information in writing, and they want to be the ones handling it, not individual attendees.

https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-i...

I think the use of twitter could use some help, however.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#328

Post by tn13 »

djcapelis wrote: post #205
tn13 wrote: post #53

This is what happens now: In an all male team we decide to hire a girl. But then someone says "we wont be able to crack fallus jokes anymore? ". Screw it lets hire a guy ...

I'm sorry if some women are totally screwing up your bro culture, but I think that's actually the point.

The point is why cant we expect the women to adjust to the realities of the world? Wherever there are girls they are going to talk about other girls and their shoes and that sorta stuff which I might find offensive and wherever there are men they are going to talk about sex. I don't see why women take an offense to that. No one is cracking a joke on her or asking her to participate in the joke.

I would rather have a sexist but cohesive team rather than a politically correct non-cohesive team. We need more and more productive people in the business, whether they are men, women or trans does not matter. People like the lady in question in my opinion are hurdle to building good teams.

I expect Sendgrid to say something about the conduct of their employee.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#329

Post by jasonlotito »

integraton wrote: post #50

Her own phallus joke, as mentioned in the pastie, which she made on Twitter, a much more public venue: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 Incredibly hypocritical on her part.

PyCon has a code of conduct. The write up regarding this specific incident is here:

http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...

People are allowed to make offensive jokes. Except when they agree not to. By attending PyCon, you are making that agreement.

In the end, the result was resolved well by all 3 parties.

The issue is that one of the parties got fired. An overreaction by his ex-employer. In part, I blame the community. The employer probably thought to quickly defuse the situation and distance themselves. It's been mostly effective, with the blame primarily being put on the woman. Most people seem to be ignoring the actual perpetrators of the real problem, the firing.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#330

Post by katbyte »

Joeboy wrote: post #142
katbyte wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as "a women in tech" (god i hate even saying it like that lol) i totally agree. i think what she did was absurd. It wasn't even a lewd or offensive joke. Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. If it was bothersome in anyway it was they were so loud she was paying more attention to them and they private conversations and not the speaker. Sh…

Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.

exactly, i have female friends that make far worse joke like that, and male friends who are greatly bothered by them.
Post reply on HN