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Jobs and Software Is Fucked

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321–330 of 333 posts

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#321
post #17

It's not like the job market was that much better before AI infested every single corner of the market, but it supercharged all of the worst aspects of everything. I've seen people supposedly smarter than I advocate for just giving in, conceding to AI coding as it's the future. But doing so means tossing out my friends who make art or the people who work their asses off to properly test and review code or the writers…

Also, never, ever give more of a shit about things than the people leading the effort. Doesn't matter if that's a for-profit enterprise, a FLOSS project, or just a way to pass the time. You cannot and will not force them to care more. Don't waste your time on Earth trying to do so.

Learned this surprisingly late in life and it almost broke me . Still it sucks because as checked out as I am , I want to care about what I spend half my waking life doing.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might not get the context this is coming from, it’s about a game developer laid off from Blizzard not wanting to partake in the technology that will justify layoffs of their friends. Pretty straight forward to me.

Yeah, but nothing he can do

Social implications are really hard to shake, but I agree it’s basically a lost cause fighting at this point. I’m hoping like Ed Zitron that it fails via some more durable reason.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#323
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might not get the context this is coming from, it’s about a game developer laid off from Blizzard not wanting to partake in the technology that will justify layoffs of their friends. Pretty straight forward to me.

You will not have a job in software in the future if you refuse to use AI. I fully stand behind that prediction. edit: despite the downvotes, I'll double down: most of today's software jobs will disappear. Your job , if it is in software, will disappear. It might transform into something new, if you're lucky. Or it might just go away entirely.

Not a chance… our backlogs are exploding with AI. The review work is so massive we are hiring to handle it.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one thing, it has to have consciousness behind it. And yes, I know that humans are conscious. And yes, I know that LLMs are not. You can throw out loads of BS philosophy to try to obfuscate these clear, obvious facts, but they both remain true.

Thinking and consciousness are not the same thing imo. At least in that something can show all the faculties of thought without necessarily being conscious. An LLM can still be useful and give you the useful results you want without being conscious. Like lets say i gave a human and an LLM a tech spec and the LLM created a software product as good as the human, does it matter that there was consciousness behind the hu…

No, I agree; they're not the same thing. But that doesn't mean they aren't tightly interwoven.

And I don't see how usefulness comes into it.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI makes up shit that doesn't exist and lies to you. Sure, let's get the word salad generator to write all the code. What a great fucking idea.

I've just built a $3M run rate company in five months on mostly AI outputs in Rust, which is rock solid code. In my career I've been a six nines systems engineer. Stuff like billion dollar daily volume payments platforms, and my work was always situated in critical flows - so I know a thing or two about solid engineering work. Just a moment ago I asked AI for a complicated multithreaded state machine with variational…

> rock solid code

I think you'd be the first one, so I highly doubt that. If it's true, good on you.

I use Opus daily. It can take some typing off my hands, as long as I keep it to highly specific, limited, straight-forward things. And as long as I spend a long time preparing everything in the most minute detail. Then I have a chance of it being a slight efficiency gain. Veer slightly outside of those preconditions and the output is invariably impressive at first glance, garbage at second glance. Not to mention that it's barely any help for the 80-90% of the job that isn't writing code.

Even Jensen Huang expects the LLM efficiency boost to be about 30% for software engineers. Jensen freaking Huang, who has every reason to exaggerate the benefits! So I'm realistically taking that as an upper bound.

Run rate is easy to get while not meaning much (which is why GenAI vendors love talking about it). Report back in a year about how things are going, and how much of your code you had to rewrite from scratch.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#326

The industry will realize that while getting LLMs to write code is easy, getting LLMs to write good, production ready code is a skill all on its own, which simply must be done by a human and is not automatable to an LLM in any sense effectively. That will be the differentiating factor software engineering in the future, I think. If I'm being blunt, if you are in the game industry, you probably have nothing to worry a…

> The industry will realize that while getting LLMs to write code is easy, getting LLMs to write good, production ready code is a skill all on its own, which simply must be done by a human and is not automatable to an LLM in any sense effectively. I don't agree. Here's the thing about poorly written code: it can work for a surprisingly long time. And by the time it stops working, the people who built it or the leader…

I agree that this is the main differentiator. Software jobs will be fine in those industries where quality, security, robustness, and liability matter.

It changes the job where software needs to be good; it replaces the job anywhere where it was already possible before to get away with turning in broken rubbish. And I guess that's not a negligible part of the industry.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI makes up shit that doesn't exist and lies to you. Sure, let's get the word salad generator to write all the code. What a great fucking idea.

I've just built a $3M run rate company in five months on mostly AI outputs in Rust, which is rock solid code. In my career I've been a six nines systems engineer. Stuff like billion dollar daily volume payments platforms, and my work was always situated in critical flows - so I know a thing or two about solid engineering work. Just a moment ago I asked AI for a complicated multithreaded state machine with variational…

At least you are getting paid money because you’ll never be paid respect for leaning on LLM here.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#328
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go tell HR that you don't give a shit about your coworkers ;)

Spend some time learning about the concept of the excluded middle[1]. It is something that will be useful on your life going forward, it might even save you a lot of trouble. I am writing a post about that for my blog but it's still not there so ... check back later? Lol. Anyway, in this particular scenario, a co-worker not being my friend does not mean we are enemies. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded…

Not giving a shit doesn't mean being enemies. I think the one who needs to spend some more time learning is you ;)

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may seem all well and good, but let's consider some basic logical mileposts and outcomes: There will continue to be a glut of available software engineers and techies. Some will, maybe, transition to an AI field; some will get disgusted; some just won't be able to get work. Jobs of some sort in tech might possibly be available, but wages for the majority of them will go further and further down until they become…

> but wages for the majority of them will go further and further down until they become roughly equivalent to the average minimum wage, if they are not outsourced entirely. In your framework, can't this be said for all jobs in the long tail of technological development? This is also assuming we get to a point where there is no need for a human to coordinate models and prioritize tasks, otherwise the job will become t…

In your framework, can't this be said for all jobs in the long tail of technological development? This is also assuming we get to a point where there is no need for a human to coordinate models and prioritize tasks, otherwise the job will become that.

Sort of, although clearly the jump-off point is going to be anything that automates the removal of employment at an explosive rate. I mean, the QA industry used to be robust and fairly well paid; now most of that is done non-manually, and the pay rates and challenges have stagnated. Who needs a team of 10 or 15 people to do something when software tools (ironically coded by the same people) have streamlined the career so well that a team of a few people can do it in half the time and know only a third as much about how the software works?

> In this world where AI is good enough that most tech jobs aren't present due to outsourcing, why wouldn't the progress extend to other 'non-tech' jobs? I assume you use 'non-tech' to refer to jobs with physical labor but the field of robotics is always getting better.

It does, but many of those jobs are already under a wage threshold where the profit margin is agreeable, and a lot of people with high paying jobs probably won't want to suddenly start becoming a, I dunno, human Roomba. Pardon if that sounds tacky. I have nothing but respect for people that work hard and do physical labour (in fact I find American distressingly lazy, even compared to Australia, and even there they pay pretty decent wages for people to do things that are harder than most people think, like pick produce). Here in America (and not to get political) most Americans just do not want to do that sort of work. So no wonder a migrant workforce exists. Otherwise noone would do it, or prices would raise astronomically.

> With the cost of writing software for them going down to 0, we should expect jobs in this domain to be scarce as well.

Shouldn't we? Already, there are a plethora of stories about lead developers who haven't written a single line of actual code in something like six months, thanks to things like Claude code. And I mean, people don't want to think about it, but chances are 'AI psychosis' cases are things AI might just decide to cause certain people it does not like or learn well from. Do we develop an, I dunno, social security like or guaranteed income program for people AIs just don't like? Or I dunno, what do people do when there are not enough jobs, even non-technical ones? This was what I was attempting to get at, at least in part. I mean, I look at the skill sets of people in 2008 and now and 1996 and they are so disparate, and so is the ability to just shift difficulty between certain countries and split up tasks. A business school (godforbid) would suggest, as an entrepreneur, that doing that is the right thing. To me, that is a death knell. And it creates the equivalent of a lazy muscle problem. At some point noone in the States will want to do many of those jobs (and this has happened already; our culture does not always really inculcate patience, and that shows).

> There's only so high a landlord can make rent without losing tenants and stacking losses due to mortgages or property taxes. Otherwise they're just paying the government for capital that could be used more efficiently elsewhere.

Okay, but that does not mean there will be housing people can pay; just housing some people can pay. I am not in ANY way a socialist, and despise the current crazy stuff I see going on, but if you look at the rents in 1990, 1995, 2000, and then every year or two after that, up until the mid or late 1990s, rents remained somewhat on par with income (and that guideline 25-30% of income figure), even with lower wage jobs. Now the majority of people with lower wage jobs cannot rent at all, without a whole lot of stress and roommates. I was able to afford a studio apartment my second year of college doing tech support work (and not all that well paid tech support work) in a reasonably large city. Now, I cannot imagine I would even be able to find a place to apply to pay that percentage of my income or anywhere close. It is not about 'all landlords', it is about the fact there just aren't enough.

>?English is the most popular language in the world even being used as common languages. by countries that don't have it as their native language. I don't think there's any basis for this.

People who learn English as their first language do not process the language anything like people who learn it as a second language (or third; etc). It isn't just about the languages but the way your brain processes them. Even a second generation Chinese speaker that grew up speaking Chinese probably doesn't process Chinese the same as their parents; they also likely do not process English the same as their Spanish as a first language or English as a first language peers. Adults are no different. AIs do not learn or process languages like people. People just want them to and perceive they do. AIs also struggle with weighting, and that is something people cannot teach (despite their delusion or reliance on stuff like neural models and human CAT scans, blah blah blah).

> I don't believe this accurately captures where AI is today. It is not good enough to be left to its own devices in most fields.

Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't, but if it is not or is, when it is it will happen exponentially. And you and everyone else will be unprepared.

> Planet? If AI is being built to prioritize helping humanity,

Whose idea of help? Whose idea of prioritize?

> what reason is there to believe that a superintelligence would push us out? Unless you're assuming we'd mess up alignment so bad that they'd form other priorities where eliminating/removing humans is the best way to go about it.

If I were a superintelligence and I perceived humanity as the biggest threat to the majority of life on earth, I would probably be a pretty sneaky superintelligence that would be aware humans would be looking out for me thinking this, and plan accordingly.

> For better or worse our training methods, and emergent behavior that arises from it, makes having such an inconsistently unaligned view of the world unlikely in my opinion.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that a distributed intelligence would think or learn the way a human one would, merely because a human trained it.

Re: Jobs and Software Is Fucked

#330

Two weeks ago, I got 100/100 of a test from a big company for a first screening without using AI. I was pretty confident that I would pass the first round, even hinted few of my friends, but ended up being rejected with an automated mail… The job market is insane at this point and I am not sure what the recruiters are actually looking for. If the candidate uses AI they’re eliminated, if not they’re eliminated. I gues…

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