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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#321

Post by codedokode »

yread wrote: post #145
LarsDu88 wrote: post #70

What Framework is trying to do feels like something that would've made more sense 10 years ago. And the reason for that is b/c of Moore's Law approaching its end. The way to manufacture more efficient compute now is do things like put DRAM closer to the chip and even closer integration between CPU and GPU. The fact that Apple can co-design their silicon such that the CPU and GPU can pull from the same pooled RAM is a…

SSD is also soldered for little performance advantage.

It might give great financial performance advantage though.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#322

Post by 866-RON-0-FEZ »

sowbug wrote: post #318
hamdingers wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an M4 Macbook Pro it's mild and faintly sweet but not really pleasant the way the LCD deck is. Requires a lot of heat for a long time to become noticeable. Vent is less convenient for sniffing.

Some conformal coatings, which protect PCBs from dust and moisture, can emit ethyl acetate or butyl acetate if they weren't fully cured. The smell is sweet but absolutely revolting.

Wow this absolutely might be the answer!

Ethyl acetate is used to wash flux off PCBs.

It's also used as an artificial flavoring in British "pear drops" which is probably why some people say it smells like pineapple.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#323

Post by AnthonyMouse »

vondur wrote: post #300

It is really annoying how the x64 CPU's seem to constantly ramp up and down seemingly at random. I've been trying to tweak the fan curves on my Ryzen 9950x to avoid this but haven't been successful yet. Next stop is lowering the voltage once I figure out how to do it on my motherboard.

Try making the fan speed curve mostly flat in the middle at whatever fan speed keeps the system from hitting the far end of the temperature range under moderate usage. Let it ramp all the way down at idle and all the way up at all-core full load but anything in the middle gets a fixed medium speed. If that medium speed is too loud then what you need is a larger fan that provides that amount of cooling at a lower fan speed.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#324

Post by tredre3 »

analogpixel wrote: post #254

- The Framework is more expensive : Kind of care, but not really if it's worth the money. - slower (in most cases) : I care about this. Blender needs to render. - louder (its fan ramps up quite often) : I care about this, it needs to be silent. - has a pretty poor display : I care about this, I don't want poor screen quality, poor color quality, poor text rendering. - but it is a touchscreen: could care less about th…

> by the time this laptop needs to be upgraded, i'll just buy a new one anyways since the new parts probably won't work in the old machine.

It's only been 5 years since their first laptop, but yes they sold motherboards for 5 different CPU generations that all fit in the same chassis. They've also released a Pro chassis that uses the same parts as well.

Whether most people want to keep the old beat up chassis/keyboard/trackpad/battery when they're ready to upgrade is another question.

But they have lived to their promises, despite your claim that they wouldn't.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#325

Post by mkeedlinger »

chromadon wrote: post #311
dangus wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not forget that Apple advertises paid subscriptions in notifications and settings pane alerts when you first buy the computer. They offer free trials which you can’t cancel without immediately ending the trial. (E.g., you can’t turn off auto-renewing without forfeiting the trial) A device that has ads and/or behavioral pushes to subscription services and costs $500 doesn’t really cost $500.

- "Let’s not forget that Apple advertises paid subscriptions in notifications and settings pane alerts when you first buy the computer." I've literally never seen an advert outside of a 3rd party app or website on any Apple device I've owned (many).

I just switched to an iPhone and I don’t know how this could possibly be the case for you. I get them from a bunch of Apple apps and even in the settings app.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#326

Post by codedokode »

LelouBil wrote: post #313
codedokode wrote: post #307

What I don't like in Frameworks: Tiny screens. Imagine running a browser on a 13" screen, where part of screen space is used by taskbar, tab headers, address bar, sticky site header, cookie bar and you get less than 50% left for content. And of course site designer will use the largest font available so that you can fit only one paragraph of text into remaining space. Obviously you cannot fit VS Code or KDEnlive (it…

You know they have a framework 16" ? And the keyboard of the 16 is running customizable firmware so you can have your layout switch key and whatever else you want ? It has 6 usb-c ports, that are the other end of the extension modules I bought it two years ago, I like it, but I still think it's too expensive for the actual hardware, but I liked funding the mission as well as receiving a product that I liked.

> so you can have your layout switch key and whatever else you want ?

I do not think so. Many languages have more than 26 letters but Framework doesn't seem to provide the keyboards with extra keys. They use the same keyboards as PCs, and for languages that have many letters PCs just use punctuation keys for extra letters, and move punctuation to inconvenient places. Some languages like Czech have so many extra letters that they have to use keys with digits for extra letters and type digits with Shift. And the root of the problem is that manufacturers try to fit all these letters into standard US keyboard instead of adding extra keys and adapting the keyboard for foreign languages.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#327

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

kamranjon wrote: post #273
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's irritating to see it constantly recommended as a real option.

I believe it's what Linus Torvalds uses.

Fedora

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/1pb8lgz/linus_torva...

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#328

Post by pdimitar »

tencentshill wrote: post #133
benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

When is reasonable to stop supporting a platform that only hinders the user experience? Should they have supported PPC emulation forever? x86 is on the way out in for most consumer devices. Apple is usually a bit early to drop technologies, but still acknowledges and fixes real mistakes (USB-C-only laptops and the associated keyboards) when they impact customer experience.

> x86 is on the way out in for most consumer devices.

Define "consumer devices"? I am holding on to my AMD Ryzen machines until they literally fall dead. I have no complaints from them. Maybe some modern or even next-gen ARM CPUs will be even better on Linux but I don't think we are quite there yet.

x86_64 is here to stay for a long time still.

But maybe you literally meant x86 as in the 32-bit CPU arch? If so, I'd mostly agree but not quite; they could be used in low-power micro-PCs for a long time still as well.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#329

Post by NoNoisle »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #104
akkartik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not bad. The rhetoric has had an effect over the years. https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-r...

It's actually not bad? "The most repairable MacBook in years" means practically nothing. And for someone who might be comparing with a Framework, it's probably an insult.

What would mean something to you captain?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#330

Post by ntnsndr »

I recently got a FW12 and, for a random data point, my kids love it: the color, the ability to do art on the touchscreen, the foldability. And I love all those things too, in addition to getting to play with various flavors of Linux on it. (Now running Fedora with Cosmic, but keeping GNOME for the handful of things Cosmic glitches out on.) It is just a fun computer, and I appreciate that playfulness about it every day.
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