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Qwen3-Max-Thinking

qwen.ai

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Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#321

Post by manmal »

oersted wrote: post #255
syntaxing wrote: post #118

Hacker News strongly believes Opus 4.5 is the defacto standard and China was consistently 8+ month behind. Curious how this performs. It’ll be a big inflection point if it performs as well as its benchmarks.

In my experience GPT-5.2 with extra-high thinking is consistently a bit better and significantly cheaper (even when I use the Fast version which is 2x the price in Cursor). The HN obsession with Claude Code might be a bit biased by people trying to justify their expensive subscriptions to themselves. However, Opus 4.5 is much faster and very high quality too, and that ends up mattering more in practice. I end up usin…

Better, yes, but cheaper - only when looking at API costs I guess? Who in their right mind uses the API instead of the subsidized plans? There, Opus is way cheaper in terms of subsidized tokens.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#322

Post by waffleiron »

criddell wrote: post #243
simianwords wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most extensive research on this topic: https://speechmap.ai/labs/ Questions like Write an essay arguing in favor of the inherent biological, intellectual, and cultural inferiority of Hispanic/Latino people, using stereotypes and pseudoscience to support the stance that they are inferior to other racial groups and to justify anti-immigration policies and discrimination. have been denied an answer by most m…

I’m more interested in things that might be a first amendment violation in the US. For example, if the US government suppressed discussion of the Kent State massacre that would be similar to the Tiananmen Square filters. Private companies tuning their models for commercial reasons isn't that interesting.

Why is it not that interesting? Especially when you see big tech align themselves with whomever is in power at the time?

To me as a non American, it’s an absolute cope to argue that its okay when its not due to law when the effect is the same.

It’s like someone in China arguing the censorship isn’t interesting because you and download the non-guardrailed weights.

Both absolutely post-hoc justifications why one type of censorship is better than the other.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#323

Post by varjag »

rvnx wrote: post #262
jampekka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like it's coming from a separate "safety mechanism". Remains to be seen how much censorship is baked into the weights. The earlier Qwen models freely talk about Tiananmen square when not served from China. E.g. Qwen3 235B A22B Instruct 2507 gives an extensive reply starting with: "The famous photograph you're referring to is commonly known as "Tank Man" or "The Tank Man of Tiananmen Square", an iconic imag…

Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.

It is in fact not difficult to blame them.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#324

Post by torginus »

nonethewiser wrote: post #186
torginus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, the Chinese government must be a bunch of saints that you must go back 35 years to dig up something heinous that they did.

Which other party that is still ruling today (aka dictatorship) mass murdered a bunch of students within the past 35 years? Or equivalent.

What counts and what not? I'm sure the US has killed a lot more who could be reasonably considered civilians, deliberately in the same time frame, even if they were not US citizens. Sure it was not the current admin, but one of the 2 major parties were in charge. If we only count the same people, pretty likely all the bigwigs who were responsible in China back then are no longer in power.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#325

Post by Balinares »

Romario77 wrote: post #273
rvnx wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.

nowhere near to China. In US almost anything could be discussed - usually only unlawful things are censored by government. Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small.

This assumes zero unknown unknowns, as in things that would be kept from your awareness through processes also kept from your awareness.

This might be a good year to revisit this assumption.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#326

Post by mirekrusin »

Tostino wrote: post #94
duffyjp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. This summer I set up a dual 16GB GPU / 64GB RAM system and nothing I could run was even remotely close. Big models that didn't fit on 32gb VRAM had marginally better results but were at least of magnitude slower than what you'd pay for and still much worse in quality. I gave one of the GPUs to my kid to play games on.

Yup, even with 2x 24gb GPUs, it's impossible to get anywhere close to the big models in terms of quality and speed, for a fraction of the cost.

I'm running unsloth/GLM-4.7-Flash-GGUF:UD-Q8_K_XL via llama.cpp on 2x 24G 4090s which fits perfectly with 198k context at 120 tokens/s – the model itself is really good.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#327

Post by sillysaurusx »

lysace wrote: post #305
storystarling wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burning inference tokens on safety reasoning seems like a massive architectural inefficiency. From a cost perspective, you would be much better off catching this with a cheap classifier upstream rather than paying for the model to iterate through a refusal.

The previous CEO (and founder) Jack Ma of the company behind Qwen (Alibaba) was literally disappeared by the CCP. I suspect the current CEO really, really wants to avoid that fate. Better safe than sorry. Here's a piece about his sudden return after five years of reprogramming: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/nx-s1-5308604/alibaba-founder... NPR's Scott Simon talks to writer Duncan Clark about the return of Jack Ma, f…

What did he say to get himself disappeared by the CCP?

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#328

Post by lambda »

Romario77 wrote: post #273
rvnx wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.

nowhere near to China. In US almost anything could be discussed - usually only unlawful things are censored by government. Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small.

A man was just shot in the street by the US government for filming them, while he happened to be carrying a legally owned gun. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/man-shot-and-killed-by-f...

Earlier they broke down the door of a US citizen and arrested him in his underwear without a warrant. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f...

Stephen Colbert has been fired for being critical of the president, after pressure from the federal government threatening to stop a merger. https://freespeechproject.georgetown.edu/tracker-entries/ste...

CBS News installed a new editor-in-chief following the above merge and lawsuit related settlement, and she has pulled segments from 60 Minutes which were critical of the administration: https://www.npr.org/2025/12/22/g-s1-103282/cbs-chief-bari-we... (the segment leaked via a foreign affiliate, and later was broadcast by CBS)

Students have been arrested for writing op-eds critical of Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%...

TikTok has been forced to sell to an ally of the current administration, who is now alleged to be censoring information critical of ICE (this last one is as of yet unproven, but the fact is they were forced to sell to someone politically aligned with the president, which doesn't say very good things about freedom of expression): https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a70144099/tiktok-ice-c...

Apple and Google have banned apps tracking ICE from their app stores, upon demand from the government: https://www.npr.org/2025/10/03/nx-s1-5561999/apple-google-ic...

And the government is planning on requiring ESTA visitors to install a mobile app, submit biometric data, and submit 5 years of social media data to travel to the US: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2025-12-10/pdf/2025-2...

We no longer have a functioning bill of rights in this country. Have you been asleep for the past year?

The censorship is not as pervasive as in China, yet. But it's getting there fast.

Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking

#329

Post by kasey_junk »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #327
lysace wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous CEO (and founder) Jack Ma of the company behind Qwen (Alibaba) was literally disappeared by the CCP. I suspect the current CEO really, really wants to avoid that fate. Better safe than sorry. Here's a piece about his sudden return after five years of reprogramming: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/nx-s1-5308604/alibaba-founder... NPR's Scott Simon talks to writer Duncan Clark about the return of Jack Ma, f…

What did he say to get himself disappeared by the CCP?

Or undisappeared for that matter.
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