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EU age verification app not planning desktop support

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Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#321

Post by WaitWaitWha »

bonoboTP wrote: post #224
harrisoned wrote: post #179

> At present the project is focused on mobile platforms, specifically Android and iOS, as they cover the vast majority of users and real-world use cases. (..) Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. This is the equivalent of a "Do you guys not have phones??"[1] but on a way larger scale. At least where i live i am able to use the bare minimum of phones, even working with tech. The friction is inc…

Another recent news about mandated app use: Ryanair now (from November) requires using their app for the boarding pass, no more printouts from the desktop. Also, they refuse to show the QR code for the boarding pass in a mobile browser via the website, you must use their app. https://www.msn.com/en-ie/travel/news/ryanair-s-new-check-in...

This has been the same for most low cost airlines (e.g., Frontier, Spirit). To get a boarding pass without a mobile, customer must go to the counter, pay an additional fee and get the printed version.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#322

Post by BasilofBasiley »

okanat wrote: post #301
johnisgood wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which banks? Which country? How do they check and enforce iPhone / Google wrt. 2FA? Are you referring to TOTP as 2FA?

All banks are required to have "safe" 2FA in the EU by EU regulation. SMS is banned. Most banks in Germany, Austria and Portugal default to Play Store or App Store apps with OS integrity checks. It seems like the Nordic countries have it a bit better with the ID reader apps. There are sometimes alternatives and some of them require paid subscription. The apps they require are proprietary. They are not generic TOTP ge…

>SMS is banned. Really? I didn't know that. Can you point me to a document that states that? I'd greatly appreciate it.

>SafetyNet or Play Integrity

A few days ago I did inspect the NovoBanco (Portuguese) apk, and I did look for SafetyNet specifically. They didn't use it. But since I'm not that familiar with the android eco-system I couldn't really tell if Play Integrity was used instead. But I did find a LOT of HMS (Huawei Mobile Services) stuff, and some if it was definitely related to security.

I might take a look at it again tomorrow.

I was curious if I could sideload the app without logging into a google account, meaning without using google services, but all I did was a tiny bit of static analysis instead of actually trying it.

If you have any write-ups on crazy hacks for foss systems, again it would be awesome if you could share them and greatly appreciated. Cheers

Also, is using HMS a normal thing in android development? Last I checked Huawei was persona non grata in the west, at least when it came to hardware like network equipment and consumer devices. I was surprised when I saw HMS in the apk.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#323

Post by wartywhoa23 »

In these huge whirls of dust stirred by violent Overton Window movements, I'm struggling to find any single voice raising concerns not about the lack of available instuments of oppression on desktop machines, but rather about the fact of coersion to embrace said instruments itself

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#324

Post by throwaway287391 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #310
XorNot wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an SRE I can assure you that "sending a PDF by email" is far from free to support, and anything email is pretty much top of the list to eliminate.

It doesn't need to be by email. They can simply show it in the mobile website. But they refuse to do so in order to get all that data which they can sell. In a mobile app it's way harder to run ad blockers and much easier to sneakily collect information on the user. Especially on android which is by far the biggest OS in the countries where Ryanair operates.

I really doubt it's that, as opposed to the maintenance cost of an extra flow to a boarding pass. Or perhaps just a perceived complexity/annoyance cost when something breaks in the desktop flow here and there.

I'd think it's only maybe 5-10% of customers at most who both use desktop over mobile to get their boarding pass and use an ad-blocker on desktop. And honestly I don't remember ever seeing an ad (even on Ryanair) when getting my boarding pass on mobile. OTOH I distinctly remember seeing many giant ads on printed boarding passes, most often on printed boarding passes brandished by other customers (usually printed in full color!). I'd think that's hugely more valuable as advertising real estate than the iota of additional data they get to collect on a few adblock users who have been forced to use mobile.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#325

Post by GoblinSlayer »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #273
simjnd wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse: You just won't be able to use websites on desktop unless you pull out your phone and verify.

I hope the push for verification leads to the normies learning the ways of identity theft. The fun really ramps up once they figure out free money tricks.

Normies don't use desktop computers.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#326

Post by GoblinSlayer »

BasilofBasiley wrote: post #263
eikenberry wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "The bank"... does this mean Portugal only has one bank? If not, wouldn't this be a good reason so change banks? Maybe to a credit union (bank co-op) if they have those in Portugal as the members generally have much more of a say.

When I wrote "the bank" I meant, the bank in question, which is the one mentioned in the URL. Hope this makes it clearer for you. As for alternatives, yes there are, I'm still figuring which ones do not require an app on the smart-phone, though. I believe I've found a fair alternative after asking a few friends but, I have to account for other factors as well, like, how secure their infrastructure is. This is because…

Just use a strong password, then 2fa is redundant.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#327

Post by GoblinSlayer »

BasilofBasiley wrote: post #322
okanat wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All banks are required to have "safe" 2FA in the EU by EU regulation. SMS is banned. Most banks in Germany, Austria and Portugal default to Play Store or App Store apps with OS integrity checks. It seems like the Nordic countries have it a bit better with the ID reader apps. There are sometimes alternatives and some of them require paid subscription. The apps they require are proprietary. They are not generic TOTP ge…

>SMS is banned. Really? I didn't know that. Can you point me to a document that states that? I'd greatly appreciate it. >SafetyNet or Play Integrity A few days ago I did inspect the NovoBanco (Portuguese) apk, and I did look for SafetyNet specifically. They didn't use it. But since I'm not that familiar with the android eco-system I couldn't really tell if Play Integrity was used instead. But I did find a LOT of HMS…

Try to run it in virtualbox.

>Last I checked Huawei was persona non grata in the west

Isn't it only in USA?

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#328

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

bonoboTP wrote: post #303
XorNot wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a cost cutting measure. App-only reduces support and development costs with whoever they're outsourcing this too. There's a line item which basically said "mobile web" and they wanted it gone to save some number of dollars per year.

No, sending a pdf by email is no extra cost. They already have an email output interface for tickets and recipts and confirmations. It's all about better tracking. I'm not quite sure what additional info they get exactly, but tons and tons of mobile websites (that work and don't get deleted) are close to unusable due to a barrage of popups telling you to use the app (e.g. Reddit and other socials). Also there is no i…

Not just tracking - also a chance to spam you with notifications until you figure out how to block them, and free ad space on your home screen in the form of the app icon.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#329

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

jacobgkau wrote: post #274
bonoboTP wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are verbose and vague about it: "Some passengers may be concerned about what they can do if they lose their phone or of their devices run out of battery before the pass board the aircraft. Ryanair has said they will assist people experiencing difficulties free of charge at the gate gathering their information and flight details which will be cross-checked and validated against the flight manifest so that they ca…

Of course-- there will be accommodations to start out with. Then, after the new system has become "just the way things work," the accommodations will be removed for security or efficiency or some other reason. Or maybe not. I've never lost a boarding pass, but if you lose one, you can get it re-issued somewhere, right?

With a normal airline? You walk up to the gate, say you lost your paperwork (boarding pass, ticket, doesn't matter), show your ID, and get a new boarding pass issued within about a minute of managing to get someone's attention. At least that was my experience. No hassle, no fee.

Ryanair? I would expect them to offer you their boarding pass printing service for only $99.99 (you missed the $49.99 special that was only available until 4 hours before boarding, silly you).

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#330

Post by FridayoLeary »

kulahan wrote: post #183
harrisoned wrote: post #179

> At present the project is focused on mobile platforms, specifically Android and iOS, as they cover the vast majority of users and real-world use cases. (..) Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. This is the equivalent of a "Do you guys not have phones??"[1] but on a way larger scale. At least where i live i am able to use the bare minimum of phones, even working with tech. The friction is inc…

I do find it interesting that in an attempt to bring more people into modern society (via ability to access everything from an inexpensive smartphone), we're creating a stratification in society. My brother hates tech more than me, and only has an old flip phone. I'm always surprised by the random problems he runs into as a result. Unresponsive desktop sites that beg you to download apps are the worst.

How is it that in todays day and age websites can be broken on desktops and favours smartphones? They are at best a compromised ux. Small screens and they are awkward to type on. Those are inherent limitations which are unlikely to change anytime soon. folding phones are a niche item and are likely to stay that way for the forseeable future. Tactile touchscreens will only mitigate the inherent drawbacks not solve them. The other solution is of course wearables like ar but not surprisingly people are stubbornly resisting buying them. I'm not sure what Apple and Meta were even thinking. What else is there? Projected holograms in 3d like in movies? I'm not yet ready for my entire world to turn blue.
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